Coolant - Ready made or concentrate...?

I thought words like quality and calibre would've indemnified

me for the shrek tag. I wonder what thanks I'll get when your new sig below hits the streets...:|

 

well not normally

Aluminium heater cores are made the same way as the radiators and with the same fin & tube. External corosion is not usally a problem its more often than not that the heater cores are set a bit higher in the cooling system and as such are the first to loose the "coolant" air is the cause of accelerated corosion. Wall thickness of the tube are around 8 thou so you can see its not a lot!!

 

Amazing likeness ... except for the

.... ears!

Looks like he's been drinking coolant? :LOL:

 

Hey Russ - Do you want to update your profile

so that we all know who you are and where you're from and what ride you have.

 

I wasn't actually coming to anyone's

defence. But each to his own and your lack of understanding points out that you are someone that will have an idea stuck in their head and no matter what anyone else says, believe that you are always right.

In the simplest terms possible (so that you can understand Russ), all I said was that you should re-think your point of few with people nullifyig your first argument... these people with a vast amount of experience and knowledge contribute most to this forum and the learning points for new owners/lovers of Zeds.

If you want to start argueing the points and throwing wild accusations around, be my guest. However, I would be careful of those with sufficiently more knowledge than you in certain areas. This will only hamper your likeness of asking more questions and the opinion of others to answer any questions that you may have.

But then again, you might not even own a Zed. Like Candu said, put some details down and talk about these areas in more depth over the phone or something... this is not the place to start slugging it out.

Take it or leave... I would suggest take it!

 

I would hope Russ that you never have any need of Chilli's

extensive knowlege of the Z in the future. He has a lot of respect on this site and the purile attack of his character was unwarranted. Attacks like that are usually the sole province of a divorce court hearing.

 

What's Thermostats got to do with Wetting agent>>

or Coolants, Nathan.
This thread started out about a particular product.
I think that you are trying to bait someone here by using a quote that was intended to give credit to the knowledge of a professional radiator specialist.
Or are you using an alias now, like, "RUSS".
Stop trying to stir up members of this forum.
Your credibility as a professional, is starting to wane.
Kerry

 

Keza get off your soapbox you look like an idiot

What an immature response to a post. The topic of the thread is engine cooling. We have a radiator expert here on the thread at this time with a tonne of experience. Why shouldnt the question be asked? Does it need to go in its own thread?

Now the fact that Chili swears black and blue that they make no difference is beside the point. This was something discussed a while back and because of his say so a lot of members believe they dont do anything. Recently Ive been told for certain they did and now thanks to Rob this has also been backed up. The quote of reference just leaves Chili in a pickle. Either he admits he was wrong or argues with a radiator specialist. I thought it was quite funny myself. Either way information that was incorrect, should be rectified and discussed so people quoting info from here dont look retarded by stating the wrong thing.

People like yourself, jumping in when you dont know the first thing, are what change simple discussion of a topic to arguments. You should keep your mouth shut unless you have something useful to say. If you need to score points buttering up chili then please do it in private. I for one would just like to here simple discussion of the topic at hand, not your crying or what you THINK is going on.

 

Nathan ... the general mood of the forum is continually

being sullied by your continual bickering.

If you are so unhappy with other members why do you keep coming back? ...

Just go away mate and let us enjoy the congenial atmosphere that 99.999% of the members want.

 

DISAGREEMENT SETTLED AMICABLY.:thumbsup:

Due to the emergence of a third party attempt to re-ignite an old argument, Russ and I have reached an amicable conclusion to the current difference of opinion RE: Coolants. We both feel that it is in the best interests of the forum, for this matter to rest, and there are no hard feelings on either side.
To those people who supported either side of the issue, thanks for your input.
To those who would have liked to escalate the situation, GO TO HELL

No further discussion on this matter will be entertained by me.:zlove:

 

The memory's a little hazy, and without

going back and regurgitating some or all of the previous lively debate on thermostats, Nathan and I had quite a good forum dialogue on whether a lower temp thermostat will protect an engine from overheating, or at least offer some extra thermal protection when it is needed. I'm not sure if I'm the person he is referring to about "thermostats making no difference to running temperatures", or more specifically the rating of the thermostat, rather than thermostat vs no thermostat), but my general point at the time was that once a thermostat is opened, it doesn't matter whether its a 72 degree or an 80 degree, the cooling capability is then set by the rest of the coolant system. If a car is going to be driven in a manner which is likely to produce a lot of engine heat, then all a lower temp thermostat will do is open a little sooner and start cooling a little sooner, but the end equilibrium temperature (once again, stating if the car is being driven enthusiastically, and producing a lot of engine heat) of the engine will not be due to the thermostat, but due to the other components of the system, most notably the radiator, cooling fan, coolant, engine condition, etc.

Of course this does not apply if the engine is not being used 'enthusiastically', ie where the capacity of the radiator to cool outweighs the amount of heat energy produced by the engine, in which case the thermostat comes into play, and the mean temperature cycles around the thermostat temperature range.

Unfortunately, with Zed engines being as fun to use as they are, and Zed radiators being as marginal (and old) as they are, most of us spend some time in the former situation, rather than the latter

I'm sure Nathan's car does run cooler during normal road use, but stick it on a dyno for an extended session, or take it out on the track for a number of laps, and I think the lower thermostat range will not be noticeable. If it still is, then I think Nathan must have a bloody good radiator

I'm interested in your thoughts on this, Spot and Zis.

 

Aperture another point too.

Larger aperture would equate to more flow?

 

Id really like to know why you think its bickering

to simply disagree with chilli on something? We are meant to be mature adults and the forum is for open discussion of zed realted material. Like with dangerous it is very easy to have a rational debate, but not so with chili?? Zed4life, you Keza, JP and the rest of chilis fan club need to a) not be so sensitive and b) pass useless comments when they are not needed. You do more with comments like these to inflame a situation that me simply asking a question.

Take for example the last thread with JP. JP said he had done x mods to a car. I thought he had done the wrong thing, and its my opinion. Through DISCUSSION on the forum JP cleared things up and we were both happy. It was a perfectly reasonable discussion until the likes of you felt they have to add their 2c. Same goes again with this thread. Myself, Rob, Dangerous and Im sure Chili would all like to have a discussion on this. Its something that I think people have been mislead on in the past and its time to correct that as we have an expert here. What would of been a simple discussion is now turning into another argument because of YOUR comments not mine.

So if you really want to make the forum easier going I suggest you take some of your own advice. Or is this simply going to be a forum where Chili and his wannabes simply get to tell everyone else incorrect info and everyone else being too scared to say something for fear of your critisism?

 

I agree...

...if you start playin' the man you forget about the ball.
I don't think there was anything malicious in Nathan raising this, we all told him he was wrong remember? Including myself!

 

I think thats where the problem lies

Where does the capacity of the radiator to cool outwiegh the heat production of the engine? From the data I have so far it seems that possibly on heavy track work or stuck in traffic on a 40 degree day will be only times. The guys in the states using these even found lower temps using techtoms on the track so maybe not even then.
I would think that in almost all circumstances of daily use of the zed and the mild spirited bits of driving that the thermostat will easily govern temps. As I said mine was only 75 degrees still after some quite hard running doing some tuning.
Maybe as you say with an old radiator and poor condition cooling it may be different, but with a good system a colder thermostat = colder engine temps.

 

ok, can I have a go at this one

A thermostat is simply a temperature operated valve. So, if an engine is making x amount of horsepower, and requires the cooling system to take y amount of heat from the engine, it will run at z degrees under normal conditions. Unless the thermostats opening temperature is ABOVE the normal operating temperature of the engine, it cannot make the cooling system act any differently. If the opening temp is higher then at normal operating temp, the thermostat is not fully open and thus is not passing the full flow of coolant through the engine, so will run hotter. If the opening temp of the thermostat is lower than normal operating temp of the engine, then it will only open sooner and provide full coolant flow through the engine. It can not make the engine run cooler than normal, it is not a miracle cooling device. The engine runs at it's normal temperature because the radiator is removing enough heat from the coolant to keep it at that temp. Different coolants can make alterations to operating temps, but thermostats cannot lower them. When you say that yours runs at 75 degrees, that must be the 'normal' operating temperature of that engine (and cooling system), and thus REQUIRES the use of a lower temp thermostat to allow the engine to run at that temp. This said, 75 degrees is probably to cool to be efficient and should probably be run with a higher temp thermostat to bring it into an acceptable range for efficient combustion/economy. So yes, I agree with both sides of the story in some aspects

 

Once again you are wrong.

It was me, and me only, that took an opposite veiw to the Engineer/MD, or don't you read his posts properly.:zlove:

 

What a complete waste of screen space.

Sad really:unsure:

 

lol I believe I said it was argued by many

I just said you were the person who just made the comment about not arguing with a radiator specialist and now are in the position where you have to do exactly that or admit that your wrong. What an interesting predicament :wacko: I look forward to seeing how you handle it. I notice its been "no comment" yet until you see how the chips fall. That aside feel free to add contructive thoughts to the debate, just keep it contructive and mature.

 

yes exactly...

but where the confusion comes in is when determining how much cooling the system is actually capable of. When stationary its not capable of much, hot day and stuck in traffic then doesnt matter if you have a low or high temp thermostat the temps will be the same (high). However on a well maintained cooling system when you start moving and the radiator works well you are able to reduce these temperatures significantly as the temp comes under the range of the thermostat. So with a lower temp thermostat mine becomes colder on normal/spirited driving then someones with a higher temp thermostat as there stat closes and prevents further cooling.

The argument that it makes no difference only applies if the radiator is unable to bring the temp of the coolant down to the level of the lower thermostat. I guess this is where the argument lies. I know it can on my car with the koyo, Im not certain about the stock radiator but presume it can also as its been done lots in the US. If thats correct then a lower thermostat makes the engine run colder during normal/spirited driving conditions which was my intial argument many moons ago.

And your right about the engine temps, too cold. I will see how it goes over the summer but think I may have to switch back to a normal one. At the moment my car is running very very rich because of this and my fuel consumption is crap.