Legal advise Western Sydney

Discussion in 'Non Technical' started by bobbs, Jul 21, 2016.

  1. bobbs

    bobbs Member

    Got a BS fine for "Not give sufficient change of direction signal".
    Long story short: Cops were following me for ages From Penrith to Mt Druitt. Stupid lady tries to merge into me without looking. Then cops follow me for a bit more then fine me for not indicating "enough".

    Complete BS. Was definitely targeted due to the zed.

    Can anyone recommend a good lawyer who isn't going to charge me $400 an hour to tell me if i have / dont have a case.

    I'm going to have to request their dashcam footage. Anyone know if they allow this for regular people or can only a lawyer subpoena dashcam?

    Cheers.
     
  2. Madcow

    Madcow Active Member

    Without a lawyer they will LOL@U.


    How much was the fine?
     
  3. bobbs

    bobbs Member

    $180 for not indicating for 3 whole seconds before changing lanes. Not sure how many points though...
    Just found out where this guy was located. They'll let me view the footage. (perhaps I can record it on camera/phone). But I don't think they give you the digital copy.
    For the offence, as soon as I started talking about getting a lawyer and taking it to court, they were strongly recommending i get it reviewed...
    It's not so much about the money, but about the points. Clean record for about 7 years and I'm almost eligible for cheaper insurance lol
     
  4. zx299

    zx299 Well-Known Member

    You are entitled to see the footage......

    Look on the ticket and see which station he was from and front up requesting to see the video footage of the alleged offence.
     
  5. bobbs

    bobbs Member

    Doesn't say on the ticket. Though I called around and found him. Not many cops driving around in an expensive black clubsport.
     
  6. Madcow

    Madcow Active Member

    So have any chance at taking this on yourself. You need to find out if the law states how long is "enough"

    Then you start to enter the gray area...

    For 180$ id pay the fine and be over with it. If you want cheaper insurance shop around.

    Claim the 180$ back on tax and be done with it.
     
  7. bobbs

    bobbs Member

    Not having a bar of it lol
    A lawyer did say that nsw law may not stipulate how long is enough... so will be looking into that.
     
  8. Chrispy

    Chrispy Pretentious Upstart

    I know QLD doesn't specify. Just 'sufficient.
     
  9. Shane001

    Shane001 Well-Known Member

    Um, how are you gonna do this (legally)? You can't claim personal fines back on your tax, even if it was while on business or in a company car.
     
  10. AndyMac

    AndyMac Better than you

    It doesn't state it a time, and in the words of the current road rules published by RMS in 2016 you need to give "plenty of warning", which as far as a magistrate would be concerns, will be highly circumstantial.

    You could argue this if you wanted to. I'd leave the notion "that you were targeted because of the vehicle you drive" at home.

    You'd also need to be 100% sure there isn't anything else in the period they were following you that gave them cause to slap you with a fine. Your comment about someone almost merging into you could be used against you as far as following merging guidance.

    I would do as others have suggested and cop the fine. Your day in court representing yourself is going to cost you $60 or so and take half the day. So unless you have nothing else to do, paying the fine is probably cheaper.


     
  11. Madcow

    Madcow Active Member

    Not directly claim the fine claim other things which dont need recipts to the value of 180$
     
  12. bobbs

    bobbs Member

    I'm not actually working. So time isn't an issue. $60 for court is stupid... but I will make the cops pay for that.
    My zed is stock... nor was I doing anything stupid. 100000% sure of that.
    With this person merging in to me, I find it hard to see how it could be my fault... yet I was the one fined for it. Though what do you mean by "merging guidance"?
    Note, cop and I were originally in the middle lane but it was moving slower at about 60km in 80 zone. I wasn't even gunning it (Plus I was turning left anyway).

    [​IMG]

    No way am I paying the fine. Apply for leniency at the very least. Its one of those silly fines when they can't get you for something real.
     
  13. Shane001

    Shane001 Well-Known Member

    lol well you do that anyway
     
  14. scottyoz1962

    scottyoz1962 Active Member

    http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/roads/safety-rules/road-rules/intersections.html



    Signalling

    You must indicate to let others know what you plan to do. Give plenty of warning by signalling before you turn left or right, or change lanes.

    Make sure your indicator is turned off after each turn or lane change. If your indicators are not working, not clearly visible or your vehicle does not have indicator lights then you must give a hand signal when turning right or stopping.

    There is no set time frame set out in the rules, but as a rule of thumb it is always been depending on how close the next " intersection " is but generally 30 meters or upto 17 seconds at 30kph in Queensland at least. But so long as you indicate as soon as you have passed one intersection and you are turning at the next one, that is fine and no time frame is enforced.

    So as many "Laws" are national or co-existent from state to state.


    You could argue that there is no real time frame so it is dependent on the officer at the time and up too his/her discretion and thus be blatantly unfair if it is longer than say 5 seconds if just changing lanes, as the onus is also on other drivers too be aware of their surroundings and of other vehicles.
     
  15. stumagoo

    stumagoo Active Member

    I think the reality is you need to view the footage, and go from there. maybe a 3rd party thats impartial as well but if the law states no time fixed frame then its totally up to the cop. and you need to be able to show that you have indicated long enough to ensure other road users should not have missed it.

    Tis a deep hole and I cant see any way of really fighting it. its like my last speed camera ticket - just me on the road doing 67kmph going into a single lane left turn Tee intersection. You could see my wheels turning and the indicator on for the turn but Hey I was speeding. but not going sideways lol which I would have been if I was indeed doing the speed they claim
     
  16. Gunwarm

    Gunwarm Kamikazee Special Corps

    Its a no win,well you can but wont be worth the chase so to speak. :banned:
     
  17. rob260

    rob260 Administrator Staff Member

    You can always elect to have the matter heard in court, then ask for a legal aid solicitor when you get there. Not something I would do but if $$ are tight that's certainly an option.

    I'd just pay the fine and get on with it.
     
  18. Smokey

    Smokey New Member

    I'd just pay up, if you get a magistrate who is anything like the officer who pulled you over - you'll end up having wasted a lot of your time & it'll end up costing you more... not to mention it'll annoy you even longer then.
    Couple of week ago, I exited the highway (100km/h zone) & didn't notice there was instantly a 60km/h sign. Saw a speed camera & figured I was ok since I was surrounded by other cars (was a two lane exit from highway) & assumed I would have been in an 80 section prior to the limit dropping to 60.
    Well... got a $1260 fine in the mail though mine was one of 3 cars in the photo! Used to be that if more than one car was in the shot, a ticket couldn't be issued. But now they put a little BS circle on your rego plate on the photo to try to convince you that the camera was smart enough to speed-track each car (BULLSHIT - more like they now just send a fine to each car owner in the photo!).
    Anyway, the fine was so high because my car is registered in a company name. So then I had to fill out a form, have it witnessed by a JP so the fine could be reissued in my name at the wonderfully reduced amount of $285. Fancy 100 instantly down to 60 with a 60 sign that's almost hidden. Pay & forget is a better deal.
     
  19. AndyMac

    AndyMac Better than you

    Yeah it is a one of those stupid fines for the sake of fining, and in principle should be contested, it's just IMO not worth it.

    Re: merging guidance, if the cop believes you were sitting in a blind spot, or otherwise making it difficult for the other car to merge he could be a dick about it in court. See the footage objectively and decide if you want to proceed.

    Just remember, there's a definite bias in western sydney on traffic offences. However clear cut may not go your way.
     
  20. Madcow

    Madcow Active Member

    I see time is an issue, you have too much, go find a job.*



    That advice is free too!
     

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