What's causing my lifters to fail??

Discussion in 'Technical' started by A-Bris-Z, Mar 4, 2014.

  1. geron

    geron National Petroleum Equipm

    What Karl said....

    Mine is an occasional weekend car and each time I start it a lifter ticks. Tick, tick, tick....

    I'm using Penrite 15-40 fully sick Synthetic. I think now its 15-50.

    After taking if for a shirt drive it goes away. If I start it the next day, no noise.

    Take it for a good spin.

    Peter
     
  2. strange zed

    strange zed Member

    you did not check that size the first time from what u have said. will put money they have been buggerd just the worse ones had u hunting on the other side. u even said it yourself that the noise is a lot less then it was, u wouldn't have heard it over the bad ones on passenger side
     
  3. A-Bris-Z

    A-Bris-Z Carcraze

    kakaboy & geron: it's a bit more than a tic, more of a clack. Like previously you don't hear it at idle or low revs, but start to hear it under acceleration. The harder you hit the pedal the louder it is. I know the tic, tic noise you are talking about, but this is a little different. It's more solid and I can understand why others thought it was a spun bearing. Without any evidence, but after seeing the other lifters, I think it might be the lobes of the cam coming around and slapping the lifters that have "sagged". The harder you accelerate the hard it hits them...maybe? Either way it's the same noise as before (but not as bad yet) and removal and refit fixed them.

    I took it for a drive today (about 30km) with a few sessions of good boost running up to 6000rpm or there abouts.......cant say I notice any real difference in the sound when I got back. I'll continue to drive for a while (maybe a few hundred km) and if it doesn't improve I'll have to pull those lifters as well. Now that I know what the problem is I'm not as stressed. Before I wasn't sure if it was a bearing or what so didn't want to drive it. I don't think driving it with a few saggy lifters will do any damage though.

    strange zed: you're probably right with a loud noise you tend to focus on that.
     
  4. strange zed

    strange zed Member

    have done it myself, was chasing one noise and as soon as i solved it another "sprung" up but it turns out it had been dwelling underneath the louder noise the whole time. another thing is if u had dud lifters on that side there is bound to be some on the other side from the same batch that werent reco'd or replaced VERY unlikely that they all managed on the one side unless it was oil issues but with a reco motor i would hope that would be fine
     
  5. Jamie

    Jamie Jamie The Hobbit

  6. A-Bris-Z

    A-Bris-Z Carcraze

    LOL...yeah I wonder what it sounds like when revved? I'm not even going to call mine lifter tic to be honest as it's only audible when you rev it hard and its more of a clack than a tic. Same as before on the other side though so I'm still confident that it is the lifters.
     
  7. rob260

    rob260 Administrator Staff Member

    Were the heads serviced as part of the rebuild?
     
  8. A-Bris-Z

    A-Bris-Z Carcraze

    Apparently, but who know what was actually done.
     
  9. geron

    geron National Petroleum Equipm

    If it sounds rattly.....

    like a clack, rattle, clack, rattle.... = lifters.

    I thought you had the 'tick, tick sound' so since it's not that and rattling, then its lifters out and varnish off them. I wouldn't drive the car in that situation, it would sound horrible - like a spanner in the works.

    I know this from the previous car that I had which sat around for over a year before selling it to my friend only to find once he bought it the lifters rattled like crazy. NO TICK, TICK. Rattle, Rattle. This was never an issue before and I was like WTF? I too thought it might be a bearing but my mate thought lifters. So he took them out, immersed them in oil for a week or so and then took them to pieces to make sure they weren't seized. Identified the problem ones and were replaced with other known good ones. That was pretty much it after that. No lifter noise.

    Hope this helps

    Peter

     
  10. kakaboy

    kakaboy New Member

    So you have two scenarios, either your lifters are screwed or your oil galleries are blocked.

    Did the lifters make this noise prior to rebuild?

    Maybe your lifters were not serviced properly. In Jamies engine Emile put a brand new set of lifters which didnt fix the problem.

    But seeing as you have serviced the troubled lifters and now they are ok and the noise is somewhere else, Like troubled zed mentioned you just need to do all of them while your in there.
     
  11. loveinglife

    loveinglife New Member

    Marcus, I am no expert on z's yet but a little trick in the business to get more oil pressure without replacing the pump is to stretch the spring on the pump. you can also insert a heavier spring. If this doesn't work then change the pump but I presume if it's a new donk this was done or checked? On the oil, I use a heavier grade due to the fact we live in Aus and it's hotter and as you have noticed when your car is at temp the pressure drops off. You will still need a good quality oil unless you change it often, then it's a waste of time and you can get a good blend of mineral and synthetic for half the price of full syn.
     
  12. loveinglife

    loveinglife New Member

    The other thing is the hardening on the cams may have gone. Very common with all cars especially ones that use shims for adjustment. Once this hardening is worn you can change and adjust till the cows come home but the cam wear rate just gets worse and you end up with noisy tappets or lifters which ever the case may be. This will eventually change the duration and lift of the cam/valves and you will get crap performance. I hope this isn't the case.... but you can check if your getting enough oil up top by firing the beast up with the valve covers off or the oil filler cap on some cars. When you have replaced those lifters do they seem ok? i.e are they collapsed or do they still have heavy spring in them when depressed?
     
  13. loveinglife

    loveinglife New Member

    FYI, my oil pressure does the same as yours minus the lifter noise! apparently common on these temperamental beasts we all have. For peace of mind hook up a pressure gauge and see what it's like. The sender can be fixed by soaking it in kero overnight and blowing it out but the calibration of the sender and gauge is, dare I say it, shit. but it is still a reference point so once you see what the gauge says you can rest easier. Good luck. I am only a newbie to these z's but I have learned a shite load by reading up on them and I guess being a mechanic helps!
     
  14. A-Bris-Z

    A-Bris-Z Carcraze

    Thanks for all the notes. The oil pressure concerns me as it often sits on zero while driving at speed 60-100km/h. First thing I need to do is rule out the sender so I've ordered a new one. Hopefully that will be all it is. Not sure why the lifters are failing, but the ones I've change we're sinking badly, but seem fine now after cleaning them up. Looks like I'll now have to do the other side as well......I just hope that will be the end of it. Welcome to the craziness of Z's by the way. I've had 3 now. First 2 were awesome cars, but this one has been plagued with constant problems. Hope you've found a good one :br:
     
  15. A-Bris-Z

    A-Bris-Z Carcraze

    Yes it seemed to have fixed the others so I guess I'll just repeat the process on the other side. The noise isn't present at idle but is increasingly loud the harder you accelerate. This car is eating my weekends.....but not from driving it.

     
  16. A-Bris-Z

    A-Bris-Z Carcraze

    This was a replacement engine so is have no idea what is was like before. The lifters were quiet for the first 2000km while running it in though. The other lifters seem fine now so I don't think they are the problem. Not sure about the oil galleries, but the two lifter problems that have occurred are on different sides of the engine so I thought this would be unusual. Also it's been mentioned that having blocked galleries causes high oil pressure, which is not my problem either.
     
  17. bRACKET

    bRACKET Do Right Dean

    I know you said you've already ordered the oil pressure sender, but if you're going to the trouble of changing it anyway, a 350z one goes straight in, just hook the wire from the sender to the wire from the loom. Heard from a reliable z mechanic that the 350z ones are less prone to failure.

    Got one on my engine and it works a treat :)
     
  18. WazTTed

    WazTTed Grease Monkey

    check your sump isnt dented and blocking the pickup !! could be something simple like that causing your oil pressure issues
     
  19. parker

    parker Been around for a bit

    With regards to your oil sender.

    Get in there and take it off. Find a decent size pin or a small nail. Even a bit of .032" lockwire fits nicely. and just run it in and out of the orifice in your sender unit. I know it sounds stupid but years ago my gauge was doing the same thing as yours. You will most likely get the tiniest bit of rubbish build up come out of the sender and Mine has been working like new ever since I did that. And that was about 3 years ago. Good luck
     
  20. kakaboy

    kakaboy New Member

    Yes but with all the rattle going on it would be hard to pinpoint the area. Good chance they have been rattling all along but only now evident since the others have been fixed.

    Regards to oil pressure, your in the Im not sure realm until you sort out your oil sender. Im assuming you have had a new oil pump put in? When the sender is working it should be roughly on 1/4 when idling and about 3/4 when under load.

    Running fine for the first 2000kms can be a number of scenarios. The oil pump is old and now failing? The oil galleries could be blocked with debris from the skim and clean up? General lifter failure due to age? (although it seems you have solved this recently so I guess if everything is ok then they will remain quiet)
     

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