Cheers MichealZ Seems manufacturers have a different view on this to others - I note that it states a minimum of 30 seconds I also note the stats are majority to briefly warming up I agree I have a neighbour issue here - LittleRedZX (I threatened to call the police on him once for being an aggressive maniac) Since that he is under my windows all the time with lawnmowers and whipper-snippers and even leaf blowers on windy days (hahaha), and starts a Harley Davidson that has more DB than a jet engine but I just close the door! (hahaha) Seems he is used to being a biker in his heydays and thinks he can intimidate everyone into submission! Well I used to be a bouncer in biker bar for many years! Hahaha (among my many jobs along the way) This neighbour has had strata declare I cannot even use a power tool anymore (to noisy?) - lol, seems to be a one way street so far in arbitration, conciliation and meditation - so just wondering what's next - no BBQ's except for him due to the fumes- just wondering where I draw the line here? Seems I now have to come up with proof for strata that driving off - wrecks an engine. So the manual is a part assist. Cheers JC (Can't wait to move from here in the meantime)
Hahaha - umm that's what I thought - so I tried that - oops fail - copped a mouthful of filthy abuse the next time I did it! Hahaha! (even tried parking the car sideways as well - haha)
I start and drive off slowly then once it gets to 70 degrees I give it a little bit but never heaps until up to full temp. I feel for you having a dick head for a neighbour. I had a lunatic for a neighbour years ago and I can tell you from experience that trying to play nice just does not work. Once I played his game back he worked out this dog had more bite. I first tried everything to make him happy but eventually realised he was feeding on it. If he can lay a complaint for noise on you need to do it back. Just don't play his game make the game yours. Cheers Dave
My car demands to be warmed up to at least 55 degrees. I usually fiddle with my iPod and check this forum while I am waiting.
I'm the same as everyone else, let the car idle for half a minute at most to allow the oil time to circulate, then drive easy till warmed up. My mother is a shocker, she will start a car and take off as the engine is just firing up
You people worry too much ffs. Just drive the damn thing. In the morning, first start I will fire it up, and drive off straight away, if I need to stand on it to get a gap in traffic, I will. In the afternoon, it usually takes a few minutes to get out of the driveway at work due to peak hour traffic, but as soon as theres a gap it's at full noise. And never has a single f**k been given as to where the needles are...
I'm with TJ. Modern engines are built to take cold starts. A friend of mine actually ran his wife's asian built family sedan for 70,000km's WITHOUT a single service from delivery. Upon putting it up for sale he attempted draining the oil and wondered why jelly-like goo came out. lol
Unless you plan on keeping it for 48 trillion k's, you will never know if your over thought start up ritual made a difference. And let's face it, most of these old datsuns came here with 1 million k's wound off in pretty terrible condition, like excess wear at cold start is important after 20 years...
I warmed mine up on the tansbrake and did a couple of motor purges for good measure. Ran extremely fast once warm. 22psi sitting still and it didnt blow. Just drive it slow until warm and you'll be right
If I need to lock the garage, Mine will be sitting for about a minute while I get out and close the door, otherwise just drive off gently. Normally keep the revs down and no boost until oil pressure starts dropping on the gauge (I don't have an oil temp gauge)
I think this is in 2 parts: Metal wear, at start, due to the oil not fully circulated and being cold Possible wear, after start, before the engine comes up to operating temp. I'd say that No.1 creates the most wear, and No.2 depends a lot on how you drive. I use an oil primer and give it 30 secs before heading off, easy at first.
Last time I bothered to check, it seemed that "Leaf Blowers & Lawn Mowers" fell squarely into the Power Tool category. Might be time to insist on total observance of the Strata Rules being enforced on ALL parties? Might also be time to talk to the people at the Strata Titles Commission(for some valuable advice). Your story reminds me of the time when I owned a Home Unit at Dee Why, several other owners objected to residents driving past their units to access the Garages at the rear of the complex(most of the complainants were Body Corporate Members and so appealing for Common Sense and Fair Play was a wasted effort). The issue was finally 'put to bed' at a Hearing before the Strata Titles Commission(in which they were told to pull their heads in AND ordered to pay ALL costs associated with the fiasco).
Actually I just read an engineering article based off research, that states (re wear at start up) it also has a lot to do with the combustion gases being more corrosive at start up as well Happy to try to find the link again if anyone would like to see it. So far this "myth aspect" seems to have been created by bloggers that have derived claims from engine oil manufacturers and deducted these magnificent claims from engine wear characteristics, but this is without any scientific backing of course (as yet anyway). We all know what oil companies are like with their testing and claims, hence many have already been sued for huge megabucks (one site - bobsoil even claims they use food colouring in some oils to simply make it look pretty (haha)). It can be hard to get the truth sometimes based on the commercialisation of facts, that's for sure. I did come across that radiation testing document mentioned earlier - apparently radiation was only used to determine/ show up the wear characteristics in engines but otherwise it had nothing to do with wear itself. Seems the government supports the warming up principles in education (TAFE Courses), training (Driver Training) and testing (engineers) hence critical engines like ambulances and Fire appliances have thermal heaters in vehicles to keep the engine blocks warm. Regardless, it seems that the stats are in a majority against driving off immediately, so at least I don't feel alone Cheers Chili - I will bear all that in mind, but hopefully I won't be here long enough, for it to get that far Thanks to all who have polled and contributed t5o this thread Regards JC
Agree with this. Would also note it takes about 12 minutes for oil temps to be normal running temps on my car. Coolant warms up a bit quicker.
Rings have gaps. They don't care about how big the block is, as long as there is still a gap at the ends once the rings have heated up and expanded. The wear on startup thing is more related to the bearings I thought, with the thin film the journals ride on disappearing after the engine is sitting a while. Condensation in the oil is also a possibility that I have heard, but this evaporates once things warm up. Either way, none of this helps with your neighbor.
haahah! the apartment next to me makes an absolute bucket load of noise on a lot of nights until nether hours and sometimes I have to sleep with earplugs, so I like to think that starting my car up early in the morning is pay back.
I lol'ed at this last part! If you ever bring your car to Tassie in winter, then get set for plenty of sub-3500rpm cruising! Both my Zed and the Ute Of Death spend quite a bit of time below that figure on a really cold morning!!! I actually set that same limit to below 40 degrees and 2500rpm to discourage a zillion rpm on initial startup that some women seem to do......... Moving on, slow, stationary warmup is basically a load of crap. It achieves nothing positive.... no.. wait... your heater will work before you drive... yay! It just costs you money in wasted fuel, pissed off neighbours, black shit on your nice clean concrete etc. and you engine will wear out just the same. Thing is, the excessive wear associated with cold initial running has basically NOTHING to do with cold components and/or expansion issues. That issue is largely insignificant. The notion that you need to "wait" for oil to travel to deep and dark hidden places is more or less preposterous. Its oil gentlemen, not solid grease, and at close to 100psi!!! It will get through a 3.5mm gallery in milliseconds. Oil pressure goes from zero to hero in barely a second. Your good to go as soon as the bastard fires up!!! Excessive wear associated with cold starts is almost exclusively the result of destructive acid formation which is a byproduct of the combustion process and water condensation that happens as a matter of course inside an engine. Your bores are not being worn away, they are literally being eaten away. This is why mums shopping trolley that rarely gets to full operaqting temp is rooted by 250.000K's and your average taxi that is never shut off goes on for half a million miles before the head comes off. The rapid wear happening at initial cold startup is going to happen whether you warm it up or not so you might as well wear your engine out and be going somewhere at the same time!!!! The added bonus is faster warmup time! Drive on lads!!!
Our race engines were never "run in"..... they were started and taken straight onto the track and then belted shitless for 20 odd laps..... never had an issue once I converted to this line of thought but prior to that when I used to warm them and gently run them in and all that bullshyte, I had issues with every engine.. some minor and other major ka-boomies Same applies to a daily road car, drive it like its already warm..... the only time I take a bit of extra time is if the car is cold and its about to get a good session of WOT you don't see rail's or funny cars sitting back there for 15mins "warming up"... start em ..... idle em up to the burnout pad ... INTO IT :br:
