Discussion in 'Non Technical' started by Central QLD Z, Aug 12, 2017.
That only reinforces my 'people are morons' saying.
I've been lurking the rotary groups as of late and occasionally you see showroom condition RX2s and RX3s selling with 6 digit price tags. Even some of the enthusiasts are saying that's crazy money and they'd rather buy something more modern and exotic at that price instead of what's essentially just an old Mazda.
AE86s are already going that way. Remember the days when we thought a $14k AE86 Hatch was silly money? Not anymore, they are $30k in today's market. $25k for the less popular notchback coupe. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of one, even rented one in Japan for a road trip but do you want to pay that much for what's essentially an old 80s RWD Corolla?
A mate bought an 86 a couple months back for 7 or 8k. Certainly not mint, but has a few mods
Im ok with my zed never selling for 6 figures, that's not why I bought it
Bargain. I'd love one at that price. Still good buys out there if looking hard enough. Fixer uppers are the way to go these days. You can drive the snot out of them yet still add value by fixing up the faults regular buyers judge cars on.
Ok, take this however you want, and you can tell me to fk off, don't really care, but this is what I do, I have 5 cars in the garage now, and 4 of them have appreciated 150-200% in the past 3 years. I've studied the market and I've poured a hell of a lot of cash into this in favour of other asset classes. The one that hasn't was a lesson learned and it's not losing money. It's just not going anywhere. Also take this view as a 10 year view. After that it's a different story.
I'm afraid that as far as what actually drives appreciation in the car market, the beloved z32 doesn't meet most of them. To consider the z32 appreciating outside of inflation and mild increases driven around trends and emotion are concerned, you need to look at it from an investment perspective.
It has reached the bottom of it's depreciation curve, and it will trend up, but you'll find that it's broadly in line with inflation and your net value after maintenance will not have + sign in front of it.
Pedigree and provenance. Unfortunately not. There was no significant motorsport that the actual Z32 competed in. IMSA does not count, it wasn't a homoglomated z32. Unlike the R32 of the period which dominated. It was also lowly regarded in comparison to it's lineage in the 240z and was up against some very good japanese cars of the period in the guise of the RX7 and GTR's. The GTR's in particular coming from the same marque also push down the z32 from ever rising to glory as a garage collectable.
Pivotal Milestone. Was it the first or the last of a significant vehicle trend? Not really, it could be argued that the zed car went to NA engines after the z32, but turbo motors in general are being phased in rather than out, and the 350z was considered a better performing car stock to stock.
Scarcity. If you don't have the provenance, is it rare? Nope, mass produced sports car of the 90's. Good examples are coming harder to find, but that doesn't mean it's scarce. If it truly was appreciating then less than ideal cars would be snapped up to bring back to OEM.
Unique. Again not really. The HP race of the 90's saw the Z32, Supra, RX7, Mitsu GTO, and Skylines come out of Japan, let alone what came out of Europe. There's nothing really special about the Z32 from an investment point of view.
Marque. Certain marques are a guaranteed appreciator...even the fking mondial is going up and that's literally the worst car to ever come out of the prancing horse workshop. Nissan is not one of them.
Preconception of the masses. Unfortunately this isn't a winner either for the zed. Yeah a nice example might get a few photographs taken by the appreciating passer by, but you're more often than not branded with the hoon-iron. Too many zed rolling around with 4" SPC cans out the rear, oversized BOV's, scissor doors and 2-tonne subs in the back for them to have a good rep.
The collectability of cars like the Z32 which don't fit into investment class are an emotional asset, I will likely add one to the garage again, not because it fits in with my other investments, but because I had so much fun and such good memories of the zeds I owned, and part of that is of course the time spent with the crew on here.
Scissor doors a plus for me and easy to change back. 1 tonne sub easy to unplug and lift out yes my back is strong.
At the end of the day if some one wants what ever bad enough they will part with the cash,i know I will.
Look what a rusty old HQ Holden can bring in the way of cash to day.Still getting over that. Let a loan what a RTE38 charger brings .If I still had my RT id only want to keep it.Been trying to track it down and bring back to life.
You've entirely missed the point, and homed in straight to the ricer comment. You don't need to justify your choices, you just need to take your zed tinted glasses off for a minute and understand that the world doesn't see your car the way you do.
Guys, the value of the zed in all it's individual customised glory is not monetary, it has an intangible value to you and often you alone. Some have had the car for the better part of 25 years and wouldn't part with it even if it did rise to 6 figures. That intangible value won't let you accept that your car is worth market price to the market, so these polls are never going to give you an objective view, because all of you believe your zed is worth above market price and your zed is tastefully modded just so to be cream of the crop.
Just enjoy your cars, but don't sit on them thinking they are a future appreciating asset.
4% a year upward movement...that's all your getting, and you can thank the CPI for that.
I hate to say it but I think Andy has hit the nail on the head..... I love the Z32 but if it was going to soar in price it already would be, just like the Supra, FD and GTR of the time. Sure good examples will be/are worth money however not in the leagues of the more mainstream/desired japanese cars.
Ok keep a eye on this Ricer ,by the way I love rice . https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/south-grafton/cars-vans-utes/1991-nissan-300zx-coupe/1152224407
I hate the term "Ricer" but i'm not sure that the Z you linked could be called that...Mine in the avatar pic there tho, that's been called a ricer, and to be fair, it is pretty wild looking, but I am in the process of getting it how I want it. Have to start somewhere after all
The ricer term is just a nick name Haters made up Like as if rice and Japan are not the same I just do what I want to please me. What I can see of yours I am all for it.Cheers Peter
Hit the nail on the head. The crap ones have to disappear, then the 300ZX stigma will slowly evaporate and they might actually start to appreciate in value.
Pretty much what Andy said. If you want to talk about market value, that pretty much sums it up. I'd still like to think that there's always still going to be collectors and people who idealise these cars like some of us still do, and with that, they would be willing to fork out for the right ones that ticks off their boxes but it just comes down to the buyers. There would be some willing to pay the right amount but sadly for us, the overall market value for these cars are still sitting in the cheap range where majority of the interested buyers would just be people looking for a cheap thrill.
Give it a while, it will appreciate eventually. I've got a 1956 beetle thats only starting to see some kind of upwards motion in price, hahaha. Thats only about 61 years for a decent appreciation.
That would be me. I'd start to think about selling at 7 figures though and definitely at 8 figures.
I'll agree that at present people like me don't yet set the price though - because there are currently far more Z32's for sale than there are people like me who don't already have a zed. Maybe that will always be the case (I'm 50 myself and they probably aren't generating new Z32 enthusiasts. Depends on whether the human or zed attrition rate is greater I guess).
The market for expensive zeds is people who for whatever reason think they're amazing (me - but not most people apparently) who don't have one already (maybe they crashed it or something) and who also have the spare cash to buy an expensive one.
Z32 numbers certainly are coming down though. Around 5 years ago when I sold my NA Z32 (that I'd owned for 17 years) and bought my first TT Z32 - when looking on carsales for Zeds there were about 7 pages of zeds (12 zeds per page) just in NSW alone (similar numbers in Vic and Qld). Then about a year or two ago I noticed that there were now only 7 pages of zeds for sale on carsales in all of Australia (2 pages of zeds in NSW). Then yesterday I noticed that were just 16 cars (less than 2 pages) for sale on carsales in all of Australia (just 4 Z32s for sale in NSW - a far cry from the 7 X 12 = 84 Z32's on sale in NSW on carsales just 5 years ago).
Now I know carsales isn't the only place zeds are sold (gumtree etc) but the proportion for sale on carsales versus not for sale anywhere or on sale elsewhere is probably much the same, so I think numbers are definitely coming down a lot - I wonder where they will be in another 5 years.
You can get an idea of the rate at which Zeds disappear (and basically all cars) by checking out the rate they disappear in the UK on the "how many left" site here:
I wish there was something like this for Aus. The rate would be similar I think.
I guess I'm the only one that wants the prices to stay low. Mainly due to: If my car was involved in an accident and not repairable. I would like to buy another without costing the world. Plus I like to buy my cars out right and not have to take out a loan to get them.
But buying them to cheap is going to cost heaps in the long run.I like to get the best I can even if price is up there then spend up on making it a better beast.Well that's me
That was well worded Andy, thanks for being the voice of reason
Didn't see this post before I commented on your later post. You're spot on dude.
After 30yrs years after being manufactured Historic Vehicle Clubs recognize the cars as being able to enter there events. So cars that are 30years old may have some improvement in value.
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