Severe shudder when braking at any speed.

Discussion in 'Technical' started by CHILI, Apr 19, 2008.

  1. Western Z

    Western Z special member

    thats what i was thinking and its still my bet on this .



    .
     
  2. mikemd

    mikemd New Member

    Quoting from Sydney brake specialists V-Sport in current issue of High Performance Imports on brake upgrades:
    "THE SHAKES
    In a nutshell, if you're getting feedback through the steering wheel and suspension when you apply the brakes at certain speeds and pressures, then you are experiencing what is known as brake shudder. This feedback can range from a faint vibration that is barely noticeable, to a series of shakes that are so bad they feel violent enough to almost rip the wheel from your hands.
    It doesn't matter whether you're on the track or the street, because it is caused by an uneven build-up of pad material on the surface of the rotors. It is aggravated by the high temperatures of the track and by switching back and forth between two incompatible friction materials.
    It should also be pointed out that shudder is the result of a thickness variation in pad build-up on the rotor surfaces and not the popular myth that it is caused by warped rotors. See our breakout on bedding-in to avoid this issue."
    (Pge 88 - Issue 93)
     
  3. brisz

    brisz Well-Known Member

    Do you have ...

    The break out on bedding in ?

    Will machining fix the uneven layer of pad material ?
     
  4. BADZX

    BADZX Grumpy old fart

    That's just a reminder for me ..... ( saves having to re-read the thread ......... lazy I know :D )


    Ok,
    so 4 things now stand out in my mind

    1/
    The left hand bearing
    ( we know that the RHS has been replaced)

    2/
    The problem has compounded since the RHS side bearing set was replaced only.
    ( unusual circumstance as most mechanics will always do both sides at the same time....... reason being that if the RHS has done eleventybillion miles so has the LHS ! )

    3/
    The brake calipers them selves are the last item unchecked.
    ( which is why I asked in my last post that series of questions.... all of which point to a brake system failure and NOT a steering or suspension failure )

    4/
    The rear discs / calipers / pads / and HICAS systems have not been checked.

    I thing these 4 things need to be addressed before we can move on.

    Kingy
     
  5. mikemd

    mikemd New Member

    The 'breakout' is much longer... I re-typed that by hand (oops, I mean two fingers!!):D
    Suggest you get a copy (it's the latest issue)... there also seems to be some of the article left out as they have some pics and a bit of comment about Hawk pads which doesn't match anything in the article. And there's a few things that appear to have been left unsaid... however, the bits you're after are there.;)
     
  6. WhiteNight

    WhiteNight Littering and...

    Hey buddy.. you get this problem sorted yet? I assume, like myself, people have been following your thread with curorisity with interested in any results? Hows it goin?

    Steve
     
  7. SIM300

    SIM300 FAKE MODERAT0R

    I know this has already been replaced/checked...

    But I would be trying new rotors and pads (again)... I can't see what else it could be :confused:

    Or try some different rims/tyres so you know they are not to blame. Big elimination process I know.

    Good luck.
     
  8. CHILI

    CHILI Indestructable Target

    UPDATE ON THIS MYSTERY.

    Following a day at Wokburners house, where we totally flushed ALL the brake fluid from the system. We then bled the whole system 4 times(including the ABS Controller). This made a considerable improvement, but did not eliminate the shudder entirely.
    I have since been driving the car more frequently than usual(due to numerous trips to the hospital) and the problem has gradually deminished. I have received the new Rear U/Control Arm Outer Bushes and two new HICAS Outer Steering Arm Balljoints from COZ and once they are installed we'll see what happens.:zlove::zlove:
     
  9. WOKBURNER

    WOKBURNER Bringer of fun and mayhem

    Update part 2.

    Lloyd and I bled the brakes on the car [as per factory manual] and I suspect previous incorrect bleeds [causing amplification/uneven ABS pulsing] have combined with the worn components in the rear to produce a wobble under brakes a fat lady would be proud of. There was air and other gunk in the brake lines and a fair bit of movement in the rear drivers side hub:( , from the arms and ball joints. Replace those soon and it should go.

    MattB:D
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2008
  10. DinoZ

    DinoZ Talks sh#t for a living.

    Chili, I see that you are going to replace the HICAS outer ball joints. Have you previously renewed the inner tie rod knuckles? Most of the play in my rear end was caused by the inner knuckles, but my outers were also way looser than new ones. I replaced both inners and outers only last month and made a huge difference to how the car handled (but luckily I didn't have your shudder problem). Have set the rear to 0.9 degree camber and 1mm toe-in (all done the old manual way with levels, straight edges and a tape; but I was pretty fussy about where I wanted the rear wheels pointing; and thanks to Patrick for the helping hand)
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2008
  11. WOKBURNER

    WOKBURNER Bringer of fun and mayhem

    Told him to order the rears through Caz!

    Not a 100% convinced of all of Pedders diagnosis of all the movement coming through the outer ball joint (in the HICAS arms). Some appeared to be front the inner knuckles and definately movement in the upper bushes though (as Pedder diagnosed).

    MattB
     
  12. hpcoolahan

    hpcoolahan back to boost ...yay

    Your welcome Dean....good day had by all with a good result at the end.

    Chili , glad you are finally getting somewere with this problem.
    Been following this with interest for ages, waiting for it to be solved.
    Good luck and best wishes to you and the missus.

    Cheers Mate
    Patrick
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2008
  13. CHILI

    CHILI Indestructable Target

    Thanks for that Patrick, the girlfriend(Chilimobile) is taking backstage to my sweety right now(Lynn is improving slowly), but true to form, Chilimobile has spat the dummy(and the A/C Compressor Clutch) to get even.
    Thank Christ I'm not having an illicit affair on the side, as well(I couldn't handle the drama).:):):zlove:

    P.S. Wokky's Mum is very sick ATM also. Sure hope she is on the mend Matty(thinking of you guys constantly). When it hits the fan, it really splatters, doesn't it?:eek::eek::eek:
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2008
  14. WOKBURNER

    WOKBURNER Bringer of fun and mayhem

    Tell me about it! Who through the POO at the fan!!!

    Mum not so good:( . Got told part of her brain is finished permanently, but man she is tough, still has her sense of humour, getting out of bed doing her exercises and telling the nurses what to do:D (so it could be worse), but its going to be a long hard run for the folks from here (she has lost alot of function in her right side and speech). She goes off to rehab section tonight and we are there daily to see her and humour her. Snuck her puppy in yesterday to the dismay of the nurses lol:p . Take car all best wishes to Lynn.

    MattB
     
  15. MagicMike

    MagicMike Moderator Staff Member

    Sorry to hear MAtt :(
     
  16. hpcoolahan

    hpcoolahan back to boost ...yay

    Sorry for the news there Matty , keep your chin up too mate.
    As you said , could be worse.
    Enjoy the company as long as you can, it sux when you loose your parents, i know , lost both mine before i was 22.

    Cheers
    Patrick
     
  17. angrybear

    angrybear Moderator

    That's bad news indeed Matt

    I assume from your description she has had a stroke. With modern therapy and rehabilitation, it is really amazing how much utility and mobility some stroke victims can recover over time. Fingers crossed your mother is one of those.

    Best regards
     
  18. black baz

    black baz black 'n blue Bazemy

    sorry to hear about your mum, wokkie ... trust that

    her condition improves with therapy ... will throw in a few prayers for her, tonight ...
     
  19. Nixzed

    Nixzed New Member

    Two years late with this, but I only bought my Zed this year......
    I noticed brake judder when I test drove it, and it continued, sometimes mild and sometimes not, like the OSF wheel was out of balance. This wheel would also run hotter than the NSF.
    Had a look today and found one of the front pads shaped like a wedge, worn down to the backplate at one end. Obviously one of the pistons failing to operate, or failing to retract.
    But all the pistons moved OK when I test retracted and extended. Am hoping a new parallel pad will restore normal judder-free operation.
    Nick
     
  20. Stef

    Stef Active Member

    Am hoping a new parallel pad will restore normal judder-free operation.

    Why would it ? If it wore uneven because Obviously one of the pistons failing to operate, or failing to retract. why would it come good suddenly with new pads ?

    Pull the calipers apart, clean them up, check and hone the cylinder surfaces and if good fit a new seal kit.
     

Share This Page