rear end feels "loose"

Discussion in 'Technical' started by Hidds, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. Hidds

    Hidds THAT annoying guy....

    hey guys

    with the recent rain 2 things have become apparent to me again

    1. i need new window rubbers (poor back seat)

    2. the back end feels as though its gliding.. feels like its going to flick out and cause some damage

    i know its not the tyres cause they are new, could it possibly be the fact my camber isnt at 0 on rear?

    its just been bugging me as im going round a slight bend, it feels weird
  2. laam

    laam Member

    I had this feeling in mine but just recently got new suspension put in and rear camber set to zero, sagging springs had caused it to chew through the inside of my rear tyres. I can say it feels a lot better now. But one of my rear shocks was stuffed, so who knows which of the changes I did fixed the problem or placebo effect :eek:
  3. Hidds

    Hidds THAT annoying guy....

    how much is a camber kit roughly?

    only year old springs and shocks
  4. CHILI

    CHILI Indestructable Target

    Around $270-$300 for rear Adjustable Upper Arms(Tune Agent are not bad quality at $274 from Caz Racing, or UAS have some for $250). If you go for Rose-joint/Pillow-ball types, make sure you also get the neoprene cover sleeves to keep the dirt out.

    Don't be too quick to absolve your tyres from being to blame. There are tyres(and then, there are tyres). Rubber compounds are just as important as efficient tread patterns.
    Insufficient tread drainage can be very hairy on some tyres that feel wonderful in the dry(some tread patterns can 'hold on to', or 'trap' the water, making the tyre effectively smooth/bald and bloody scary).

    Tyre width/profile and diameter can all alter the 'contact footprint' of the tyre(the actual surface area of the tyre that is in contact with the road surface at any given time)and you can lose down-force(grip)by having too much "footprint area", or too little. This is magnified in the wet, when too much footprint can result in less down-force(and a tendency to climb up on top of the water, rather than cut through it and drive on the road surface).
    There is an optimum 'contact area' for maximum grip, it's just a pain in the ass(and the hip pocket)experimenting to find the correct combination for your car, and driving style.:br:
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2011
  5. Z32 TT

    Z32 TT Active Member

    If you get the tuneagent arms or any arm for that matter make sure you change the rose joint on them. Generally speaking good rose joints dont use dust boots cause the tolerances are soo tight. if you look at the dakar rally cars they dont use dust covers. i have $60 rose joint which are forged stainless steel. I have had 2 boc choy rose joints snap on me luckily at low speed. Just a heads up
  6. Hidds

    Hidds THAT annoying guy....

    i might need to have a good sit down with you lloyd, before i go off buying crap i end up not needing

    main thing i would be after would be the 0 camber on rears, and possibly smoother ride (if thats involved)
  7. CHILI

    CHILI Indestructable Target

    As with any automotive part, going cut-price usually means "sub-standard". There is never any advantage gained by cutting corners with quality.
    Dust covers are just added precautions(because road cars are not generally subject to maintenance programs such as those carried-out by Rally Teams).

    As road users, we generally don't change things until they break, or wear-out. A Rally Team that has that philosophy will be at the back of the competition(at least until they are dropped altogether).:p:zlove:
  8. CHILI

    CHILI Indestructable Target

    Any time Mate, just let me know(Oh! and bring your cheque-book).:p:rofl::rofl::br:

    BTW, "buying crap you don't need" is part of the Initiation Ceremony to Zed Ownership.:):)
  9. Z32 TT

    Z32 TT Active Member

    this is true it pisses me off now checking the rose joints. though i have a shop press now so energy suspension bushes can go in the standard arms. I got rid of my Boc choy front camber arms. going to make some ones that have bushings instead of bearings and use chromoly steel/high tensile double bolt. should look pretty mint and be tough to boot!
  10. Hidds

    Hidds THAT annoying guy....

    lol charge for consults i see :D
  11. CHILI

    CHILI Indestructable Target

    Look forward to seeing them when they're completed(Front Camber Arms and me, have a pretty colorful history so far).:zlove:
  12. CHILI

    CHILI Indestructable Target

    You value stuff more when you have to pay for it.:p:D
  13. MoulaZX

    MoulaZX #TEAMROB

    ...Or resent it :p

  14. AndyMac

    AndyMac Better than you

    Much more than camber gives you that "loose" feeling.

    Rear toe is a massive contributor, much moreso than camber, if your toeing out for any reason then your rear wheels will fight the car direction.

    Shagged shocks, will cause weird and wonderful pressure changes from the tyre to the road.

    Shagged bushings, too much movement (play) between linkages will give strange feedback to the driver and overall poor handing.

    Poor tyre choice, to re-iterate chil-myster. A compound (non-silica) or treadpattern that behave poorly in the wet will let go on a wet surface, even at low speeds. If you find your self actually sliding in the wet, or easily braking grip, then it's a good bet it's a tyre choice. If it's still maintaining grip, but feels "loose" and just doesn't give you confidence of being able to drive normally in the wet, then it's likely to be the above issues, or all of them. They are all common on zeds at this age if you don't keep tabs on it.

    Biggest problem with camber is going to be increased tyre wear, it won't contribute nearly as much to your "loose" feeling as the above points.

  15. Hidds

    Hidds THAT annoying guy....

    so i should get the rear back to 0, and ill chuck up some photos of the tyre if that will help?
  16. Mitch

    Mitch Has one gear: GO

    ...Give that man a New ;) He's on the money.
    If you are interested in tuning your suspension Hidds, check out a book called 'making your car handle' by Fred Puhn. Its a pretty involved and seminal book for racecar suspension tuning. The first chapter stresses that no matter how good your suspension is, the limitations will always be the grip of the tyres. Friction, slip angles, downward pressure etc all play a part.
    As a real world example, Joe (Larlok) and I swapped out tyres on his zed, after a whirring and uneasy feeling was experienced when driving. Nankangs do not constitute good tyre choice... and had 'sawtoothed' tread causing vibration (relative to speed) and the noise. Maybe inspect your tyres and see what tell-tale signs you have.
  17. CHILI

    CHILI Indestructable Target

    Take it down to Con Rouggos(Owner/Manager) Pedders Suspension, 9 James Ruse Drive, Granville. 9897 2122.
    Con has been looking after my car since 2001, and is extremely familiar with Z32's.
    He's trustworthy and reliable(and a bloody nice guy), tell him you're from this forum, or that I recommended you go to him, and he will fix things up without the bullsh*t.
  18. Hidds

    Hidds THAT annoying guy....

    nice :D ive had mixed results with pedders my self

    my local (bankstown) has a guy with a R34 running 101mm all around just to mess with cops he told me, bit of a tool though haha

    but i will definatly go round there when i get a chance, last quote i got for a camber kit was $1K... crazy i know
  19. CHILI

    CHILI Indestructable Target

    I'm not giving Pedders a medal, I'm giving Con Rouggos a big recommendation(it's incidental that he owns a couple of Pedders outlets).

    You may not need a "camber kit", you might just need Adjustable Upper Arms on the rear.
    Contrary to popular belief, I have never needed any other upgrades on the rear of my car(other than the upper arms). True, I have Racing Gear Coilovers & Springs(but that's because I wanted them, not because I needed them).:eek:;)
  20. AndyMac

    AndyMac Better than you

    Don't get tunnel visioned on camber mate...there's plenty of other areas in the rear that can cause the issue.

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