Engine problems - what is this sound?

Discussion in 'Technical' started by AAU54U, Jun 22, 2014.

  1. AAU54U

    AAU54U Member

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    I was driving down the M2 and as I approached Windsor Rd the engine started making what I thought was a fan belt slipping squeaking sound. It stopped after about 30 sec. I turned off into Windsor Rd and the squeaking sound returned then the engine died. The engine would restart but only stay on for 5sec before dying again. Eventually the NRMA towed me to a servo. After about an hour of cooling down the engine would stay on but now made the sound recorded in the video below. (In all this I forgot to check what the engine temp was doing). The NRMA patrolman guy though it might be a slipped timing belt tooth (he also though the oil cap was were you check for water so not overly confident in his opinion).

    [yt]L3x-IarqB8U[/yt]

    After getting it towed home it now makes this sound (after another hour of cooling down) which is almost normal and is a lot quieter.

    [yt]SlTn2qduKnA[/yt]

    The NRMA tow truck guy who towed me home (regularly races at Sydney Dragway and has built a couple of 6 litre turbo engines or so he claims) sounded a lot more knowledge than the NRMA patrolman guy, reckons it's the water pump bearing.

    So what do you all think?

    Next question assuming I can't get Andrew ASR or UAS to fix it before this Sunday's drag race is there anyone on the forum who can do it (for a fee of course). Would prefer a pro mechanic first of course so will try Andrew and UAS tomorrow.
     
  2. SuperZ

    SuperZ Resident Z lunatic

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    Both are right

    Based on everything and the noise. I think they might be both right!

    I would say that the water pump seized (coolant temp would have helped)

    It also sounds like when the water pump seized suddenly (and the belt squealing began)the forces encountered from the seizure were transferred directly to the crankshaft (by the pulley belts) which was then trying to stop the crankshaft which then put tension on the timing belt as it was running!
    Most likely it has stretched the timing belt / jumped a tooth or even ripped a tooth off the timing belt from the tension pressure on the timing belt from the crankshaft pulley trying to stop.

    This explains the noise of the valves being out of time(and the previous squealing incident) as well as why both have diagnosed each of the two problems.

    DO NOT START THE CAR anymore
    until you get the front timing covers off or you could really do some more serious damage given the valves are already out of time (given the belt might now even break at this stage)

    You will most likely need a new timing belt (stretched out of specs at a minimum) and a new water pump (seized or is cactus) - the rest will depend on whether a 100/200K service has been done and/or how long ago - the timing tensioner itself/ valves will need to be looked at as well as other components (pulley belts etc.) once you have it apart

    I think the valves will be ok at this stage based on the noise - but it's early to say yet.Could have been much worse - you could have put the valves right through the pistons!

    Hope it turns out to be just a timing belt and a water pump in the end
    Good luck and best wishes with it mate! (looks like a nice Z in the vids)

    JC
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2014
  3. AAU54U

    AAU54U Member

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    Thanks for the feedback. Car is booked in for Timing belt and water pump replacement. Should be done before Sunday so should still be able to make Sunday's drag race. Hoping that's all it is.
     
  4. Fists

    Fists Well-Known Member

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    Based on the belt noise I would guess collapsed AC idler puller bearing with the drag causing being too much load for the car at idle, fairly easy to check.
     
  5. BLACK BEAST

    BLACK BEAST SLICKTOP TT R-SPEC

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    Get it properly diagnosed by the mechanic before they commence the work .

    You don't want the work done only to find engine damaged.



    .
     
  6. 3clipse

    3clipse #TEAMROB

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    Pretty sure he only uses Andrew @ ASR for his mechanical work, so I think he is in good hands :)
     
  7. AAU54U

    AAU54U Member

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    Thanks for the extra idea I'll get them to check it out.
     
  8. AAU54U

    AAU54U Member

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    Good point. I'll stipulate for them to check it out first.
     
  9. AAU54U

    AAU54U Member

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    Andrew is my regular mechanic and my favorite mechanic. For all his strengths however I do not give Andrew my car for a complex problem and expect to get it back the same week necessarily (or expect him to return my calls that seem week either - he tends to ring back when its ready - actually he hasn't been too bad of late). He's an honest guy who'll do a top notch job, but I wouldn't give Andrew my car for a timing belt change with a couple days notice and expect it to be finished a couple days later with high probability (I think his main problem is he is very popular so tends to be overbooked perhaps?)

    Whatever issues I may have had with them in the past I find UAS usually get the job done in time. I am just going of my experiences other people may have different experiences.

    There was a previous UAS mechanic who I got the impression though knowledgeable and competent was possibly a bit slap dash from time to time on his off days (maybe I was just unlucky or I'm overly picky), though he did do some good things for my car - wasn't all bad - but I had issues with some things - in any case he is gone now (he certainly didn't give a strong I could give a s*** vibe). Now Ben is back at UAS and I have only heard good things about Ben. People forget that John doesn't work on cars personally. I think he is a top bloke and a great asset to our community (also I'm pretty sure Andrew was a good mechanic when he used to work at UAS). So yeah I am prepared to give them another go. I need the job done ready to be finished to dag race Sunday so I am going with UAS this time.
     
  10. AAU54U

    AAU54U Member

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    It only makes the sound in the first video when the AC system is on (and I know I had the AC on when the breakdown occurred), so I would say you are right. Thanks.
     
  11. Fists

    Fists Well-Known Member

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    If its only with the AC on I think that means its the AC pump rather than the idler unfortunately, a replacement shouldn't be too hard to find but to get it filled you'll need to look at converting to the new gas type if it hasn't already been done.

    Edit: If you want to drive the car until you can get the AC sorted I would recommend taking off the belt so that you can use the demister, it will be less effective but will do much more than not using it.
     
  12. strange zed

    strange zed Member

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    their is no way possible for that to happen to the belt a seized water pump or seized anything would only cause the crank to slow down its no more damaging to the timing belt then what simply down-gearing hard and compression braking would be.
     
  13. AAU54U

    AAU54U Member

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    You're quite correct. It was the AC compressor and I now have a new one in. I also needed a new power steering pump (a 2nd hand one was put in).
     

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