AMS Build & AMS Modified: Dyno - 572.1RWHP / 590RWTQ / 21psi / Pump gas

Discussion in 'Non Technical' started by jschrauwen, Aug 31, 2012.

  1. jschrauwen

    jschrauwen My Fairlady Z

    After completeing the power improvements I wanted done, it was time to get it all in sync and have it tuned.

    While adding the following over the last few years, I'd always feel a noticeable improvement in performance but never knew the actual gains created and had only my butt dyno to go by.
    Z1 58mm Throttle Bodies
    Alloy Toys 3" Split Downpipes
    Alloy Toys 3" - 2.5" Resonated Testpipes
    AMS 2.5" Intercooler Pipe Kit
    AMS 2.5" Inlet Pipe Kit
    RS Performance 2.5" SuperflowZ Sidemount Intercoolers
    Nistune

    Prior to those upgrades, I dyno'd 491.9RWHP / 476.7RWTQ / 18psi / Pump gas in March 2008.
    Engine was a Stage 1 build by AMS in October 2007.
    As of today, I have put ~ 65,000kms on this engine and it's still as strong as the day it was built.

    [​IMG]


    Tuning was done by Radek at RS Tuning. Radek, IMO did a super job tuning my car. He wanted to make sure I had a safe tune and set my A/F to 12:1. He tuned for Lo (15 psi) and Hi (21psi) on my GReddy Profec B Spec II. He said he could have gotten higher numbers had I been using a colder plug range and pushed it safely to 23psi on pump gas. I guess I'll have to get some Iridium 7's to replace my PFR6B-11B's.
    Many thanks go to Vuk at AMS and Radek at RS Tuning. Thanks guys.
     
  2. rob260

    rob260 Administrator Staff Member

    Can you post a pic showing numbers at the bottom of the dyno chart? Correction factors etc
     
  3. kakaboy

    kakaboy New Member

    Nice ! :zlove:
     
  4. jschrauwen

    jschrauwen My Fairlady Z

    I'm not sure what you mean. Are you talking about correction for barometric pressure, temperature and such?
    His dyno does have all of that stuff as I saw it on the default screenshot of his display.
    When I talked to Radek about my only previous dyno over 4 years ago, it lead to a discussion about the various descrepencies that come about using different dyno's. He told me he does do a correction factor so that it falls in line with specific race car associations requirements. Apparently, to accurately place race cars in appropriate race categories, recent dyno results are required. In doing so, certain corrections are applied to these dyno results so that competitors can be on a level playing field as each dyno brand gives different readings between each other.
    I hope that's what you were looking for.
     
  5. Roadeater

    Roadeater Warrior of the Wasteland

    Oh noes, now comes the Aussie/Kiwi/Canadian dyno differences debate... :rolleyes: I'M OUTA HERE!

    P.S. Sweet numbers, I'll be investing in some of those parts down the line.
     
  6. MagicMike

    MagicMike Moderator Staff Member

    inb4antiamscopycatsooksdestroythread
     
  7. stumagoo

    stumagoo Active Member

    You read my mind....:br:
     
  8. URHYNS

    URHYNS Well-Known Member



    Rob knows what those figures do, I think he actually wanted to see the figures on that specific dyno sheet.
     
  9. lovmyzed

    lovmyzed Member

    great numbers, any more info on engine mods, turbos + cams in particular.

    i notice peak power is made at 6100rpm, any way to make more power up to redline?
     
  10. jschrauwen

    jschrauwen My Fairlady Z

    Ahh, OK, sorry. The tuner, Radek didn't have anything other than what you you see there on my sheet as far as dyno print-out's go.
    I guess all I can say to that is that there were a bunch of correction things listed on his default dyno homepage as I could see a few that I understood like standard pressure settings of 29.92", outside temp, intake air temp, WB, etc, but none of those were transposed onto the acual dyno printout. Sorry.
    It did get a bit toasty inside the shop during the dyno session. I was curious about his intake air temp sensor that is essentially a very thin wire inserted through the mesh of my K&N filter. I took it out and held in in my hand just to see how quickly it sensed the temperature change.





    Oh dear, I hope that doesn't happen.
     
  11. rob260

    rob260 Administrator Staff Member

    You can untwist your knickers mate dyno dynamics are the same that we use here.

    Tuning mode and correction factors are what allow you to make comparisons between other cars tuned on the same make of dyno. Without them you are drawing conclusions based on incomplete data.
     
  12. jschrauwen

    jschrauwen My Fairlady Z

    Thanks.
    Next size up Wiseco pistons (0.020" overbore)
    ARP crank, rod and head fasteners
    Cometic head gasket
    MSP manifolds
    Z1 GT675RS turbo's
    Stock cams, cam gears and valves
    Z1 high HP 6 puck ceramic clutch with 12lb flywheel
    The above mods were all part of the rebuild 5 years ago.
    The additional mods posted in the opening post have been done gradually since the rebuild.


    There were a couple of obstacles that held back even better HP results.
    Radek, mentioned to me from the get-go that my NGK PFR6b-11B plugs were going to be too hot of a plug to achieve high numbers. I wish I had known that before hand or I would have gotten some Iridium 7's.
    Between starting from scratch to build all new maps for fuel, timing, knock etc, he also had to deal with my GReddy Profec B Spec II boost controller. Initially, there was some not so pleasant boost spikes on the initial HP and torque curves and then would drop down quick and then level off and pick back up again. It seemed that after making changes to Nistune, he'd have to go back to the boost controller to make another correction. This back and forth thing took some time until he could smooth out the spike.
    Another factor that came into play was the BOV's. He's not very fond of atmospheric BOV's and prefers cars like the Z32 to retain the recirc valves. I didn't know that BOV's are not very kind to higher HP Zed's.
    Of course, through all of this he wanted to ensure I had a very safe tune and set the A/F to hover around the 12:1 mark.
    He said because of those two main factors, he didn't want to take any chances pushing the peak HP mark especially on pump gas. I think my 94 octane pump gas is about the same as your 98 octane (or close to).
    As far as he's concerned, it's not about the HP as most people like to talk about, but it's about the torque. Seeing that my torque is higher than my HP and that it comes on quite early, I'm actually quite happy with the amount of grunt it has so early in the rpm band.
    As a final part of his dyno session he tries to emulate road/highway driving conditions and re-adjusted the Nistune accordingly. The 3.5 hour drive home from the tuning shop was one of the most pleasant I've had in a long time. Maintaining highway speeds and small acceleration changes are so smooth now as if the engine is making less effort to give me the same results I used to have (does that make any sense?).
    Cruising at just under 3000rpm on the highway in 5th gear and stepping on it is a much better experience now. I don't have to make a gear change to have some get up and go from cruising speed.
    Sorry if I embellished just a little bit there. Can you tell I'm pretty happy with the results. lol :D
     
  13. 260DET

    260DET Active Member

    Power curve looks a bit pointy but with 21psi boost the output seems to be possible, at least they are using a proper dyno. How it drives is what's important, it should be a great street car performance wise.
     
  14. mungyz

    mungyz Well-Known Member

    The Dyno dynamics dynos are notorious for being VERY susceptible to user input resulting in incorrect output figures.

    In order to establish if the reading is valid or not they require further information in regards to correction factors etc, without this the graphs are virtually bragging rights only as they could be off by a substantial amount.

    People will claim the brand is a "proper dyno" when in actual fact it is only as useful as the trust you have in the tuner who was using it when it comes to outright power output.

    This is why this forum suffers greatly from dyno envy when it comes to higher powered cars, people who know and use the DD machines simply have no trust in the output of any other dyno regardless of brand.

    Kind of makes the whole point of the actual power output pointless and as I have said should perhaps just be replaced with a random unit to suit each brand.

    Great gain overall though John from what it had in the past :) out of interest do you know what the injector duty cycle was?
     
  15. Vuk@AMS

    Vuk@AMS New Member

    John you know that the real power adders were the decals and the clear timing covers ;)

    Great results from proven power adders on a Z that is 'driven' alot.

    Vuk@AMS
     
  16. jschrauwen

    jschrauwen My Fairlady Z

    Thanks Glenn for explaining that.
    I don't know off-hand what the injector duty cycle was during those runs. I don't recall seeing any graphs displayed on that but of course, the display I was watching was strictly for the dyno. Radek had his notebook in the car of course doing his thing with Nistune so I wouldn't see any of that.
    I guess what I could do is the next time I take the car out, I could select the duty cycle function on my ECUtalk and try to catch glimpses of those various readings at various stages of driving - cruise, light acceleration and heavy acceleration. That's assuming ECUtalk can provide/display that info on my Ipaq PDA/PPC.

     
  17. andy

    andy Member

    If you have a laptop then you can download Nissan DataScan I Ver 1.62 and use it to log the injector duty cycle and all the other displayed gauges. You can play back the logs through the Nissan DataScan gauges or look at the raw data in the log files using Excel or a text editor.

    [​IMG]

    The USB port on the ECUtalk can be used to connect the laptop. You just have to put ECUtalk into USBIF mode using the ECUtalk menus.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. mungyz

    mungyz Well-Known Member

    Yip Andy's bang on the money John :)

    Assuming you are able to wind the car right up to maximum power on the track (not the road - that would be naughty LOL!) then you can log all the parameters and should be able to work out the HP at the wheels very roughly using the injector duty cycle.

    This works fairly well until you change the intake and boost pipes etc - altering the efficiency of the engine system significantly (I have found), my own car was within 1hp of what the injector size was!

    Essentially if you had say 1000cc injectors and logged them as being at a peak of 50% duty cycle, it'd be a fair guess to say the car peaked at around 500Hp at the wheels.
     
  19. jschrauwen

    jschrauwen My Fairlady Z

    Thanks Glenn and Andy.
    I'll try to see if a can try this but there's no way for me to safely take the car up to redline on the highway to achieve what you may be looking for.

    Here's a couple more printouts I got as I really didn't know what to actually ask for at the end of the session along with a few responses I gave to the other forum members at the same time.

     
  20. jschrauwen

    jschrauwen My Fairlady Z

    Sorry I haven't gotten back to you guys on the duty cycle request.
    I'll try to remember to select that function of ECUTalk on my Ipaq PPC and see what I get. It's finding a suitable place to test this is the trick.
    I also noticed the Imageshack has dropped a couple of my pics. Not the first time this has happended either.
    I'll look to rehosting them again and reposting them.
     

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