It was posted in the other thread that I started to keep the BS out of here, you will find it on the dyno list as well. To the entire forum: I DO NOT want any further discussion about the power of that car in this thread, I WILL ask for the thread to be locked if this crap continues to be dragged up. For the purpose of this thread the power numbers are relevant as a comparison to the other cars run on the same dyno ONLY. If you are unable to understand this please refrain from posting in the thread until you have attained the ability to figure out why.
To be honest I wouldn't bother if I were you, I will post the chart here BUT this is NOT open to discussion, it is what it is and we should only be concerned about the difference in power between this and the others. I WILL continue with testing and will include a number of new parameters as I had always planed regardless of the interjections from the resident know it alls. The testing will continue on my own car. Some people need to understand I am running a business and trying to squeeze in this testing when it suits and makes economical sense. IF I had a decent budget to go and test just these pipes and didn't have to worry about making money this is NOT necessarily the way I would have gone about it. In life there ARE some compromises, if people can't accept this they need to have a reality check.
for quite a while now i've been thinking the effect of huge intercoolers is a bit of a wank factor, am i alone in thinking this? i fully comprehend the effects of bigger or better flowing pipes and coolers but i feel there is a point where performance gains just stop. i'd much prefer to go a water/meth setup and get rid or 10 feet or so of cooler piping.
MungyZ and anyone else in the know, a question for you if you could give me some input please? I have some custom pipework on my Z that was on it when I got it. Overall the pipes seem pretty uniform in diameter but there is a point on each side where they look smaller than even the stock pipes. Would it be fair to say that intake pipework regardless of pre/post turbo is only as good as it's narrowest point?
IMO yes that is a simplified version of the facts however the length of the pipe is important as well, remember most Z32 turbo systems have relatively small outlets from the turbos unless you are moving up in to the bigger compressors etc. GT2860Rs have two inch OD outlet but fairly thick casting, you need to go to a much bigger turbo before they move to larger outlets. I would suggest if you can replace the smaller pipes with at minimum two inch you should see a gain - depends again on how long the smaller sections are.
Nice one, thanks bud. I'll have to have a measure up of all of it with the vernier and compare to stock. Im rebuilding the car with stock tubs for now so will look into it for when I upgrade. Appreciated
No problem I'm still slowly working on this as time and events permit, I did intend to make my own 2.5" boost pipe and intercooler kit to continue with testing but something has come up so it will now be an off the shelf item - it looks that way at this stage at least For the next stage of the testing we will be focussing on efficiency rather than outright power, we have a very good log of how much fuel was required to make given amounts of power. From here we can actually see if there are big changes in the efficiency of the system as a whole, any small changes you can't relay on a lot but if we see more than say 5% change IMO that's enough to say it has done something for certain.
Right so as luck would have it Z1 has just released a 2.5" boost pipe kit and intercooler kit that will suit my needs perfectly and incorporates some design advantages over the other kits on the market. http://www.z1motorsports.com/product_info.php?products_id=6555 Should have this on the car within a mth and have results from testing to show what can be gained. We know the car made 556HP (415KW) at the hubs with 555CC injectors tapped out at 99%, I have replaced the injectors with bigger units but we can still use the fuel Vs power figures to establish if there is an efficiency change or just an outright power change. I know where I will place my bet
A company like Z1 would have the perfect resources to do a back to back comparison to display the benefits of their product. The only logical reason I could imagine that a direct sales pitch isn't demonstrated is that there is not much to demonstrate. In theory it's all good and should improve power, but to find it being left up to blokes like Glenn to test is beyond me. If you go ahead and do some solid research on comparisons with all the sensors hooked up, I would be inclined to sell the findings back to Z1 to recoup your time and efforts.
I'm sure Z1 have done at least some testing but I'm more than happy to forward my findings on to Z1 free of charge in any case. This time round my own car will have the new Z1 stuff fitted to it and then we will set up the old stuff outside of the car as per the experiment earlier. This will answer a few little questions, it's never going to be a full on multi million dollar test session but we will have a bit of info some of the other testing has never included The car will also have a brand new 300zx specific plug in and play latest generation Link ECU more technology than you can shake a stick at There are two ECUs that will be tested and they are the production prototypes, one is just a couple of steps ahead of what I have at present but true plug in and play, the other is a full on monster with more features than I can remember. True individual coil pack control instead of wasted spark, built in knock box etc, this thing will actually tell you what cylinder it is that is detonating so you can add fuel or retard timing per cylinder to get the most out of your VG Going off topic though so will post a thread about this when the time comes in the appropriate area
Z1 posting up some results from new turbos and pipes & cooler kit: http://www.300zxclub.com/showthread.php?t=210863 Similar results to what we have found over here with our testing No need for C16 and high boost any more Apparently not the missing link in physics either Dyno pencilled in for Friday next week to test and tune on my own car, track day on the Sunday so cutting it a little fine...........
Before: After: No ducts as such just yet but barely any room for air to get around these puppies anyway Will get on to sorting something when I have some spare time. Fingers crossed the dyno will be free on Friday, car is ready Parts came all nicely packaged as always from Z1: (obviously a little monkey had been in there and disturbed the package prior to the photo otherwise you'd just see a lot of paper LOL!) Intercoolers are huge and should have no problems flowing enough to increase performance as seen in previous testing - I will still work a little magic on them if I get time to help things along further
Nice pictures and all (although that is the weirdest intake I've ever seen) but did you ever follow through on your intended testing? Or are you still reigning as the king of assumptions? If there are no gains to be made with 2.5" piping, why did you order them?
At least a little thought went in to your post rob unlike Littlepups thoughtless thinly disguised dig. maybe if Littelpup would care to read the thread he would see where we are at and what we have done and are going to do - might be a bit over his head though.
Man, what a read... After reading this whole thread I'm really surprised I see a Mungy trying his guts out to do all of us a favour by spending his hard earned and his time to do a comparison. While all many can do is belittle his efforts even after having the results and reasoning spelled out to them time and time again, by not only him but other knowledgeable members as well. Then the whole argument surfaces again on the difference between NZ dyno's and ours. Where's the relevance? I'm typing this slowly so the knockers get it..... FOR THE PURPOSE OF THE TESTING, IT DOESN"T MATTER! Perhaps those that don't understand should print the figures out and sit on the page. Maybe they'll finally be able to absorb it all. Keep up the good work Mungs. Kudos to you mate Cheers, Dave
RECAP Right for those that can't keep up or remember or maybe just get lost on the way due to the interjections and length of the thread etc: DAY ONE: Started with a pre test post: After the testing: All these tests on the stock pipes but Z1 throttles and Z1 intercoolers. At this point we still thought along these lines: Dyno chart from that day: At this point after more discussion and my inner scientist saying " test the pipes you must - listen to the force you will" So it was a Friday and I headed off to the dyno, we had to start from scratch to get base numbers etc seeing as it was a different dyno - actually gave near enough the same readings and we wanted a comparison for changes we were doing on the machine. The changes were made on the machine so it make no difference what so ever tht we used a different dyno for this date. So at this point we focused on another car - I'm not going to recap that as to many people kicked up to much of a shitfight over it. It's fair to say it made enough power to cause quit a stir and a few people simply did not believe it could be possible. Moving back on to my own car it ran a maximum of 415Kw at the hubs on the same dynapack hub dyno in Tauranga we have used for all but one session. so 415Kws at the hubs with 555cc injectors maxed out - no more to be had. This is the latest update: The dyno is booked for this Friday and the car now has bigger injectors suitable for the power we are expecting (JUST!) The only thing I will be looking for on Friday is a change in the efficiency of the engine with the new pipes and intercoolers, we know what the inlet temps, pressures, fuel consumption (duty cycle), lambda readings etc were with the previous set up and will make a comparison to what we find on Friday. This will be the last of the testing and posting of results I will be doing on this subject on this forum, IMO by the time I am finished on Friday there will be more information than most people want to deal with and the basics should be pretty darn clear. I will have satisfied my own questions and so due to the negative feedback from those who choose to live life hating others who are doing what they can't I wont continue even if there are questions from people here left unanswered.
There will always be naysayers in any endeavour we decide to undertake. If everyone listened to those who didn't want to hear a different point of view, then we would still believe the world was flat, man will never fly, that we could never go to the moon, and that electric cars are better than combustion engines (let's leave that last one for now - the jury's still out on it lol). My point being this: It sometimes takes a different view to be tested to push the boundaries and get everyone thinking a little differently. That's what science is about right? In this instance you are that person and I applaud your dedication, honesty and approach. Thank you! :zlove:
