I plan to update this thread in 4 or so stages, stage 1&2 will cover the removal of old leather, with stage 3&4 covering the actual retrim. The kit I am using is not one of the recent group buy items, but was purchased off a member. NB this installment covers only removal of leather off the passenger side seat, and the backrest section only. Future installments will cover the butt-rest, and the drivers side seat is basically the same. Part 1- removing leather from passenger seat back-rest The seat I am using is off my NA- a S2 (1993) slicktop with a real neat little electric passenger seat. This is the least damaged of the 2 seats: First step was to remove the seat. Basically 4x14mm fasteners (2 bolts up front, 2 nuts/spring washers at the rear). Be sure to unplug 2x electrical connectors to remove the seat. Push it up and forward to free it. Once in the 'workshop', the seat needed to be free of trim parts on the backrest. This is basically a plastic lever and trim covering piece on each side. Removal was with a screwdriver to prise the lever out like so: The trim piece comes out easily, but has two little barbs along the long side, which need to be coerced out. Flathead screwdriver works well here too: [yt]Z6S1eV_0uIw[/yt] To get to the hinges for the backrest, there are a few small phillips screws that need to be undone to get to the inner workings of the hinge: Passenger side seat, door side hinge: Passenger side seat, Centre console side hinge: The centre console side has a funky little clip that needs to be manouvred free. Pretty easy to spot when you are there doing it yourself. When working with plastic trim pieces, it's very much a delicate job. Most of the stuff I like to do is mechanical, where a bigger hammer and some heat will free anything up. With this though, its a matter of looking, feeling, and working out how it all fits together, then going gently until the job is done. [Insert joke about the missus here]. The hinge mechanism has these nifty captive c-clips. These are just pushed off with a flat head screwdriver, leaving you with the hinge: [yt]mYk8NnZq1rw[/yt] Before The hinges and back-rest are seperated from the butt-rest, ensure that all cables for seat electrics are disconnected. In my case it was 2 connectors, and 1 wire loom which ran up thru the hinge section (thru a plastic channel). Cut any fasteners here: The next step is to remove the headrest. The headrest covers the top 2 rows of hog rings which hold the leather to the metal seat frame. There is also a plastic trim piece that covers this, so that all is hidden while the headrest is at full extension. The headrest has 2 levers- one for adjustment and the other for full removal. the removal tab is hidden deep in the crevaces of leather, and needs to be simply pushed in while the headrest is lifted out. The trim piece posed a bit of a difficulty in removing, mainly due to the fact that it has little tabs that lock under the leather folds at the top, and is also a press fit on the bottom headrest adjustment tube. This is all shown in this video: [yt]f7RJ6GUc2ck[/yt] So now the seat is free of all trim parts, and has the headrest removed. Basically now the seat only has the metal frame, springs and foam inserts, all covered by a leather skin. The leather skin is secured with little metal circular staples called c-rings or 'Hog rings'. These are super tuff and don't wear down with friction from bouncing up and down on the seat. Best plan of attack to remove them is with a pair of sidecutters. Just a tip for young players... get some decent sharp side cutters. The ones I used were cheap chinese shit, which didn't make it an easy job... especially while holding a camera phone in the other hand. So excuse the shakes I get when squeezing it in the following vids As a side note, I am a big fan of 'functional training' and in particular grip strength training. Currently capable of 8 reps of a 'captains of crush #3 gripper, rated at 195 lb (88kg) compression... so that helps a little. Those of you with little girly forearms might need some more training before attempting this job :rofl: Here is a video of the hog rings behind the head rest and what we are now left with: [yt]ZyuiMizQpOs[/yt] I did find in some areas of the seat, that the hog rings can be bent out instead of cutting them. Other areas do not allow this, as the hog rings go thru the metal rails in the foam backing of the seat, and might damage it. It will work however where there is a solid mounting point on the hog ring and seat frame: [yt]BkX_m-piEpk[/yt] Random pics of top headrest after hog ring removal, and bottom backrest 'pad' securing points The back rest part of the seat has 2 main parts- the back rest 'pad' and the bolsters on each side. The back rest pad has a leather flap attached with hog rings to a moulded foam piece with inbuilt metal attachment rails. This looks rather flimsy, and needs careful attention when removing the hog rings [yt]s568Mm5rOg0[/yt] Backrest pad pulled away, hog rings evident both on the underside of the pad, and on the material sections of the bolster, attached to the metal springs. The next step is to undo all visible hog rings, and get ready to pull away the leather from the seat. The following video shows this process, with a bit of disruption from the mobile dog wash guy and some bad camera work trying to get a camera phone to balance for a shot Nevertheless, the show must go on... [yt]2uxnwcLFi2E[/yt] The final installment shows the removal of the leather, and some ideas for the next stage of the retrim. The back pad looks like a toungue on a pair of shoes, I just fed it back thru the headrest hole, then the whole cover can be pulled off, while pulling the leather off the metal clips on the bottom of the seat near the hinge point. [yt]OwYzagOf-qQ[/yt] Well, that's about it for this installment, stay tuned for the butt-rest section leather removal in the coming days, and the actual retrim in the weeks ahead.
Very well put together. This will come in handy at a later date. Thanks Looking forward to the rest of the post.
This is Awesome All Hail Mitch for taking the time to do this. Can't wait for following episodes A big thanks so far and I'm sure this thread is going to get a heap of followers TY
It's probably a half hour job removing the leathers from the seat, took twice as long to document it all, and even longer to do the write-up. It's not as daunting seeing it all laid out in front of me. If anyone wants to loan me some hog ring pliers, I'd be eternally endebtted to you, AND will post them back to you when I'm done. Just putting it out there :zlove:
Great job Mitch. Very unselfish of you. You could have finished both chairs (or at least one) in the time you spent doing the doco. I bought some cheap hog ring pliers at Bunnings (fencing dep) - $15-$20 or so. They work fine. The hog rings for fencing are a bit warped and not sharpened so they don't work as well as the straight/sharp upholstery ones. Send me a PM if you want the pliers
Part 2 - Retrim of the backrest and building shape with foam So the learning curve is continuing, and this afternoon was somewhat productive, having the assistance of a mate to film some footage for you folks, and help with positioning the leather on the backrest frame. I decided to finish the current job on the backrest before pulling apart the seat base (affectionately known as the 'butt-rest'). Hopefully its not too disjointed for everyone. i should probably add that I'm no professional. The last time I dabbled in automotive upholstery was re-gluing the head lining up on my old VN calais as a P-Plater... so I guess one of my goals is to show you guys what to expect if you tackle this yourselves, and what to do/not to do (learning from my successes, and mistakes). First of all, props to Stef for his assistance with finding a well-priced pair of hog ring pliers. As it turns out, Bunnings warehouse sells this tool under the name of 'netting clip pliers' in the wire and fencing section, priced at a comfortable $15.95, well short of the $70 + items that are dedicated upholsters tools. Thanks for the help with that one mate. They will do the trick for this job, but extended use might see them wear out in the hinge section. A tip is to use a ball peen hammer to re-tension the rivet, or drill it, and install a bolt and a lock washer. Knowing me, I'll probably have theses up for sale cheep when Im done with this job (I'll be sick of doing the re-trim :rofl: ) Now to the good stuff... Late last night, I completely disassembled the seat foam from the metal frame, exposing the spring section, frame, and adjustment mechanisms. It appears that the foam is rather compressed, probably as a result of the leather shrinking over time as it dries out. Old and new covers side by side Placement of the metal tie wires that run inside the loops of the new seat: Centre them as best as possible: Poke a small hole and lock it in there, so it doesn't shift when you are installing the leather cover These are the loops where the wire goes thru. This is the point where the leather is tied to the seat frame, the wire adds support to stop ripping. Looking at the new and old covers, it was evident that there were some differences. I went about adding extra padding to critical areas of the seat to fill it out a bit, and make full use of the seat covers that seemed a little loose in places: Cutting a slab of 25mm medium density foam for behind the backrest springs: I just used a stanley knife to score the foam, then it is easily torn into shape. Foam was slid behind the rear foam later, behind the springs. The side bolsters seem to have taken a beating over the years, and are very sunken in appearance. Below the bolster, you can see the main wire length that the leathers and supporting guide wire rods mount to.. A slab of foam was packed between the metal frame and the foam bolster, this attempted to puff it out a bit more. I just cut this by eye, with a few rough measurements via tape measure. The door side bolster has the seat back angle adjustment motor, wiring and connector. This probably doesn't get hot, but foam was routed around it just in case... It seems a little fuller in the lower bolsters now. Now onto re-padding the top bolsters and head rest The top bolsters and headrest are a continupus piece of foam, which encompasses the foam that makes up the rear of the seat. here is a shot with it removed: For the top bolsters, I opted to pack some foam behind the standard foam as a filler. This adds some volume, while maintaining a lot of the standard shape offered by the factory foam. A notch was cut into the foam to allow movement of the levers used to flip the backrest forward for access to the rear seats in a 2+2. This foam was then folded around the metal frame like so: Another piece was cut to fit in the lip that forms the headrest foam. This piece will be sandwiched between the metal frame and the rear of the seat (remember that the front side of the seat has the headrest, and plastic trim pieces, so little effort is needed in this area) Starting to look fuller First test fit of the leather The first step is to mount the leather seat back 'tongue' through the headrest hole. From this step, the leather bolster and back sections just wrap around and can be pulled tight. Test fitting will use zip ties to secure everything temporarily, while the leather undergoes heating and stretching to make it a snug fit. Below is shown the front side of the headrest section (the actual headrest and trim piece hides this joint) [yt]EPQoDIsXid0[/yt] Side bolsters are similarly secured, but note the lack of volume in this valley between the bottom and top bolsters... Even with the stretching of the leather 'maxed out', this would still be loose. This was my one concern for the 'off the shelf' retrim kits- these fairladies should be trim and taught, not saggy Using a hair-dryer, my trusty accomplice Greg and I started the first test fit: (side note: OMG! New side cutters! Old ones were useless, these irwin vise grip ones will cut damn-near anything- stay tuned in later parts for the seat base disassembly vids) [yt]eZXPPri-n9Y[/yt] [yt]wedYhxWtLmQ[/yt] After the first test fit, I came to the realization that the seat was just a little too worn for my liking, especially in the top bolster section (despite packing the stock foam from behind). The saggy fit just looks crap, so more foam was in order. Luckily, a recent expedition to the local clark rubber store and bunnings stores meant I was well prepared for the job. Plenty of 25mm medium density foam, polyester wadding and selly's KWIK GRIP contact adhesive gel means I should make easy work of it... I chose this brand over the permatex stuff solely because of the free applicator. Marketing gurus out there should take note. Tip for young players: use rubber gloves (Don't ask me how I know). Glue is applied liberally, and left to sit for 15 minutes. Im impatient, so I hit it with the hairdryer to speed the process up, and reach the tacky point faster. Both surfaces need to be coated. I made some simple templates up for these parts, they are just simple shapes that fit together. If anyone wants the dimensions, sing out, I can PM them thru (although it is pretty self explanatory if you go down this route). The beauty of the templates is that one template will do both sides of the seat, as they are just mirror images of each other. Finished top bolster. This should offer more support through the bottom part, and redice sag (I hope). If not, I'll just try to pack more foam in there, or find some higher density stuff. The hole for the seat pivot lever needs to be cut out. [yt]5BEF7T7urYM[/yt] The finished seat top bolsters. It looks pretty crude for now, but with the leather on, and a bit of a stretch, it should all turn out well. This foam compresses really well... so it might look like a Z seat with elephantitis for now, but will look better once the covers are on. Worst case is that any excess can be cut down with a stanley knife later, if needed.
Awesome work! Dunno why this was moved from z-technical as its gotta be the most in depth tech article ive ever seen! :thumbup:
Freakin' hell, Mitch! Just so in-depth! Thanks for this! Your selflessness stinks (in a good way!)... Arvin
Nice work Mitch, that must have taken you quiet some time to put together. I'm sure there will be a few members who will really benefit from that. I can wait to see the next post with the covers on now!!
Did a bit more this morning, setting some foam on the side bolsters to give better shape in the covers. Not many interesting pics, the vids will have to do for now... [yt]VC22UruxvD0[/yt] [yt]OGmlS6YsAH8[/yt] Just used a section of foam, the angled edge wraps around on the outside of the bolster as it tapers back. Like so... These notches might need to be cut and glued to form the compound shape a little better, but I am confident that the cut of the leather will absorb a lot of the jagged edges on the foam. The job as it stands, this evening. The foam is not as dense as the factory stuff, but yields and compresses a little before the harder foam underneath gives rigid support. Not looking too shabby, will probably get another leather test fit in over the weekend some time. Depending on how it looks, I might move the foam insert from behind the springs to in front of the springs.
Late last night a mate and I tackled the final fit of the seat cover, bringing together all the prep work over the last week or so. It was a rather physical exercise, lots of straining and heating of the leather while pulling it in every which-way. I opted to use zip ties for the majority of the job, using more of them than the factory hog rings. I suspect that the zip ties will outlast the useful life of the seat or car (whichever comes first). There are not many pics of the trim fitting, although this is the sequence in which everything was tightened up: Side bolsters 1) insert tongue thru headrest hole 2) fit flaps around headrest arch 3) fit side bolster, zip-tie in 3 or so locations loosely- use heat from a hair-dryer if needed. 4) fit the other side bolster, zip-tie in 3 or so locations loosely using heat from a hair-dryer if needed. 5) heat the top arch of the seat, pulling leather down the sides and forward, bunching leather towards the peaks in the top bolsters. Zip-tie to hold this loose form. 6) heat sides of top bolsters to pull leather into the centreline of the seat, allowing the seams on the leather cover to line up with the seams created in the foam/factory mouldings. Zip tie to hold this loose form. 7) using heat and a bit of elbow grease, work the leather into the desired position, securing zip ties as needed. Pay attention to the back of the seat rest, in particular how evenly spaced the map pocket and longitudinal seams are to the rest of the seat. 8) The bottom part of the lower bolsters need to be pulled down and towards the back to keep the bolster shape, and prevent it riding up like a fat woman's gym shorts. To accomplish this (the leather thing, not the gym shorts), I punctured a small hole in the bottom most section of the leather and zip-tied it to the lower frame rail (the one which the springs are attached to. This feels very secure, and finishes the bolster shape nicely. Headrest arch 1)pull the bottom edge of the leather thru the head rest hole, and hog ring it in place. I used all available holes for this. 2) pull the top leather flap over the top of the headrest arch, and secure with hog rings. In my case, the leather was too loose in this part, so I doubled the flap over, and hog ringed it in place. This is all hidden behind the headrest and the plastic headrest trim, so focus on how it looks from the rear of the seat. Headrest proper This was a 5 minute job. The longest part was filling the laundry tub with hot water Leather becomes much more pliable with some heat. The head rest cover was simply soaked in a tub of hot water for 5 minutes, then pulled directly over the existing leather on the headrest. My cover had a neat little plastic clip, which stretched the leather while securing it. NB that the headrest cover is not foam lined, so will not retain water like the seat covers will... The back pad 'tongue' this was easy to do. a few key steps and tips with this one: 1)insert the foam pad onto the leather cover, and secure it tightly with some hog rings via the center horizontal metal wire. 2) stretch the side flaps over the foam backing and secure along the two side (vertical) metal wires. Pay particular attention to how this looks from the front, as this determines the amount of sag or tightness in the backrest pad. I opted not to put extra foam on the back pad, but made up for it by pulling the seam on the leather flaps even with the back-most corner of the foam mouldings. I like the feel of a padded bolster while being deep in the seat- extra foam on the back pad would make the seat feel a little to shallow I think (plus I put extra foam behind the seat springs on the metal frame). 3) the bottom most section of the back pad secures to the metal support wire in the leather that makes up the map pocket/back section of the seat. In my case, this would not have been tight enough, so I opted to zip tie the back pad to the bottom support rail on the seats metal frame (this is the same rail that the springs are strapped to. The next 2 pics show how the side bolster bottom part is tied to the frame rail, as well as the bottom attachment for the backrest pad. Punching the holes for the headrest 1) take care here, folks... one slip and you've stuffed the new seat covers (stuffed as in 'ruined', not stuffed as in 'full of foam'). 2) The headrest adjustment tubes have decorative plastic caps, these can be carefully prised off. 3) Feel for the hard section under the leather, and make a note of the centre point. Cut a small square in the leather to allow the plastic trim piece to come thru- you need some stretch here, so line it up so that it stretches towards the outside of the seat, and does not cause wrinkles along the top section of the back pad. Re-install plastic trim bits when done. 4) For the lever which flips the seat forward, remember that the lever is in the 'down' position, so any cuts need to be made north of the lever. Do it slowly and carefully, making test fits of the trim that surrounds this lever. So this is what it looked like before the headrest installation and punching the holes for the headrest. I'm really happy with the lower bolsters, the top ones are OK, but most of this is due to the cut of the leather- it's a pretty complex shape. These covers are not from the recent GB, but purchased off another member (supplier unknown to me), so hopefully you have just as much good luck with the fit. Before fitting the backrest lever on the top bolster Finished job with headrest trim, and headrest installed. It's been sitting in the su for the past few hours to soften up, hopefully the leather finds a good shape and relaxes a bit Still need a bit of work on the back... Mainly fitting the two side hooks that pull the whole back section down and towards the front of the seat. This can be done when the leather is nice and warm.
Part 3 - Seat base disassembly After the job on the back rest, the time has come to do the seat base. This model has the electric adjustment (its the passenger side seat still), and is looking a little worse for wear. In this installment, I'll be running thru the disassembly of the seat base, and how to get it all off and back on again, with minimal fuss and hopefully share some tips along the way. Once again, I'm not a professional, but then again, the job isn't necessarily difficult- only fiddly to get the leather all lined up and full looking. Here is the seat being worked on (and a full cuppa) Different view (and empty beers from the night before) First step is to remove the seat rails. These are the electric rails.Motor turns a worm drive gear which runs along this threaded rod in the shot. Fasteners are 12mm hex heads. Tip for young players- try to line the bolt up with the access hole before removing the seat I rigged up a little jumper wire to move the seat using the motor, but it was unsuccessful. Flex-head Ratchet spanner to the rescue! The motor drives a flex shaft with a square drive head, which in turn moves the worm gear. Ingenious. Remove adjustment switch assembly. Phillips heads. under the plastic cover is the switch unit bracket. remove this also. Remove rails to leave the bare seat cushion and frame apparatus. Notie how the door-side trim does not have the hog rings / clips, instead using a press fitplastic retainer and a channel. Remove all hog rings around the perimeter of the seat from their metal rails. the back section of the cushion is attached with these webbing straps. Remove with extreme predjudice. If you've ever wondered where all the crap ends up when you drop it down the crack of the seat, here it is. I was hoping to find a $50 not or two, and would have happily settled for some japanese yen, but on this seat, I got only crumbs and dust New vise-grip sidecutters work way better than the cheap ones I used on the seat back disassembly videos. These pliers can also double as digit-removers for gangsters, an all-round tool for Break and enters, and general handy-man duties. This is the lug that the back rest locks onto when it hinges for access to the back seats. The hinge is the right hand side lug (C-clip is removed) removing the 10mm bolt, washer and plastic cover reveals the locking lug. You need to remove the rubber stopper seen in the previous pic to remove these. poke the 'dirt collector' flaps back thru to the toip of the seat cushion. pull forward the leather off the hinge lugs and pull thru the webbing straps. this is the top view of the seat, rear section. This is the front of the seat, the side bolster. It is tied in with some hog rings to hold the shape around this area. These are the plastic fasteners and channel that make the door side of the seat look pretty. No hog rings here All the leather is removed. I'm not sure if this is a standard seat, or if it has been re-padded in the past. the passenger seat is much firmer than the drivers side, but I always attributed that to getting the least use... If you decide to remove the moulded foam completely, this is the bare frame. NB the side bolster support rails. This is why it hurts so much when you fall into your Z the wrong way and smash your ass-crack on the hard part (Don't ask me how I know) Coffee cup is now empty. It's a quick job, half hour max. Part 4- retrimming the seat base I took some measurements along the seat side bolster and transferred these to a sheet of medium density foam. ...The resulting shape seems to best fit the side bolster, and give greater support to the seat within the leather cover. Dimensions (mm) are shown. Contact adhesive is applied in this shot: The finished seat looks pretty good. I bevelled the edge of the wrap-around section of the bolster. probably wouldn't matter either way. I opted not to foam the seat base middle section, I hope this will provide a deeper feel to the seat This is the back rest placed up against the seat base. Should look good once its all done This hole is of importance... More about this in the next installment...
The factory leather seat cover uses these metal rails embedded in the moulded foam to secure the seat covers. The covers I am using however have some missing loop attachments where the wires in the leather affix to thes points in the foam. This pic shows the wire that runs along the middle seam in the seat (bolster in right of frame, green foam section at top). The lack of suitable attachment points called for desperate measures. For this, I devised a length of 9.5mm thread bar that will fit in the 10mm hole, acting as a support rod to which the leather cover can be pulled down onto (by poking zip ties thru the moulded foam). Wrapped with electyrical tape to stop chafing on the zip ties. Next-level cable tie pulling apparatus. What you know about upholstering, Hater?! so this is how it all ends up... Most of the cable ties are affixed. Rock solid. I used 2x nuts to stop the thread bar coming loose from the mounting holes. Even the electric motor will clear the new rod. One problem was encountered: New covers did not have these pins in them that hold the leather down in the groove between the side bolster and the front edge of the seat. It should fit in a pocket here. So I manned up, and hauled ass to the sewing shop. So many old ladies there... they all laughed when I asked for 'string and a strong needle'. Tip for young players, its called upholstery twine and leather needles. I bought a multi pack with crescent needles, work really well, and I can get a small pair of pliers onto it to get thru the leather. Using a stitch like those on a baseball... a figure-8. I can barely sew a button on a shirt, let alone tuff leather, but I got it done in the end. Zip ties will pull this section down thru the cushion onto the red thread bar underneath. So the next step is to wait for a sunny day so that I can get some heat into the leather and pull it all down over the seat. The zip ties will help get it all tensioned up, and adusted accordingly. I'd really love to soak the seat cover in hot water like I did with the head rest piece, but all the foam would stay wet for weeks and risk going mouldy Stay tuned for the next installment in coming days.
OK, so here is the final installment of the seat retrim series. I couldn't be assed uploading a million pics for this, instead I have a video for all you people who are playing along at home [yt]9CnToptrYyo[/yt] I hope this has been of interest to everyone, especially those who have taken part in the numerous recent group buys for these sorts of products. Shoot me thru a PM if anyone has any problems or needs advice in the seat retrims of their own. I'll endeavor to answer all questions I can, and post some pics of the final finished product when I can -mitch
So that's the finished product. My plan is to get the leather all heated up in the sun then work the covers a bit to fill the shape out as much as I can. After a month or so, I will get in there and re-tension different components to make it sit better. It should 'wear in' a bit over time, it's not a professional quality job, definately better than other DIY retrims I have seen, but it is definately something I can be proud of and say "I did it myself"
MITCH ... an absolutely brilliant, incredibly comprehensive write up .... Post of the Year by miles ... many thanks for a massive effort.
Hey all - massive Necro post here. Sorry about that.. Any chance some people screen capped this thread to save the photos? Remember reading it when it was posted and enjoying it, but now ill actually be doing it soon i came back to find it and the pics are dead! This was an awesome post by Mitch, woulda been great to save it in the tech section.
