High Stall Torque Converters

Discussion in 'Technical' started by 8300zx9, Dec 8, 2013.

  1. 8300zx9

    8300zx9 Active Member

    Anyone had any experience with high stall converters? Doesn't have to be a Zed but I'm interested to loom into this as an edition to the SAW kit. I know with the hot rod scene and with drag cars this is a popular almost common thing to have.

    Here's a link of a high staller in a Zed! Left some nice long black marks!

    http://youtu.be/Y6kIrH7kDO0

    I'm on my phone so sorry if that link doesn't work for you.
     
  2. lysergic

    lysergic PWRTRIP

    A few here run them. I do but its not a vg. It is without doubt one of the best bang for buck mods you can do to any auto provided its in good shape. Its not uncommon to drop a whole second in the quarter mile with a properly specced high stall.

    With a SAW expect it to really transform the car. always go with a reputable builder and lean towards the more agressive end ie 4000+ otherwise youll be doing it twice trust me
     
  3. lysergic

    lysergic PWRTRIP

    Turbo engines and high stalled automatics are just meant for each other
     
  4. East Coast Z

    East Coast Z Well-Known Member

    Used to have one in a 1965 Mustang behind a worked 302 Windsor.
    Prior to fitting, I queried whether it was like driving a car with a slipping clutch & was informed it was not, by various sources.
    Once fitted, at low RPM such as normal driving, it was exactly like driving a car with a slipping clutch.
    The stall speed was around 3500 RPM.
    If hard launches are your thing, then a high stall converter is the ticket.
    Because of the low efficiency at low RPM, fuel usage will increase.
     
  5. 8300zx9

    8300zx9 Active Member

    Thanks for the feedback guys. I can't do anything to the actual Auto whilst running the SAW kit as advised by the guys that made the SAW kit. So I've been considering other things to further make a fast "light" feeling Auto. Crazy happy with the SAW kit, but now like power hunting I want more and more! Haha

    I was so concerned with what a higher staller would be like for regular driving...by what your saying, seems bloody annoying! It would be quite nice though to have the RPM's in the sweet zone prior to look up for fast launches.

    Is there other torque converters on the market for the Z that provide more bite, less slip and better response without the high stall?

    I'm also considering the possibilities of faster/stronger shift Solenoids.
     
  6. jamersss

    jamersss Member

    Cam I wouldn't worry about modding the auto shift solenoids too much. If you want some quick fast fun, play around with the drop resistor in the passenger guard. It definitely has an impact on shifting quality if modded. I know your a centric man when it comes to autos (new TPS, rebuilt transmission and torque converter & SAW kit... Think you've topped it all thoroughly)

    Other than that, poor your money into getting a proper manual conversion unlike last time :p or maybe a vg30dett for some real man power and patch laying.
     
  7. East Coast Z

    East Coast Z Well-Known Member

    If you have a Twin Turbo, "a fast light feeling" can be achieved with Leader gears.
    Alternatively, the cheap & nasty option is the Non Turbo diff assembly conversion.
    If you have a Non Turbo, N2O may provide the "fast light feeling".
    Depend$ on how much of a "fa$t light feeling" you want!
     
  8. 8300zx9

    8300zx9 Active Member

    That resistor mod is good but dangerous to the health of your trans as it can't be metered. The SAW kit does the same thing plus so much more obviously. All your doing by that mod is raising the line pressure, but as I said its not metered nor is it veriable based on what your doing. I can go into the SAW computer and change the line pressure to what ever I please.

    As I said the SAW kit has transformed the Auto double fold! And more! It's a totally different car since.

    But like most of us I'm wanting more and more. So just considering what I can achieve with the torque converter, plus, the possibility of new Solenoids which is to improve the speed of a shift without increasing line pressure.
     
  9. ABZ300

    ABZ300 G

    Cam have a search for MickW's old thread...if i remember correctly I'm pretty sure it was him that did something like this to his auto transmission. He has a great wealth of knowledge so he would surely have some information for you

    Abraham
     
  10. 8300zx9

    8300zx9 Active Member

    Oh yeah you just reminded me he actually told about it on the RAAF cruise... Ill PM him...cheers
     
  11. Z32 TT

    Z32 TT Active Member

    I have one and its night and day. but spend the money on getting it done right by someone who knows what they are doing. I got mine done by allfast and he is passionate about it all.

    brazed/welded
    anti ballooning plates
    oil lubrication holes for sitting on transbrake.

    I would highly suggest "allfast" in perth. also best valvebodies for Jatcos are from MV automatics in SA they have full manual valvebodies.

    I have a ford c4 reverse manual transbrake transmission and drive it to get milk.... dont believe all the crap. you can have your cake and eat it
     
  12. ABZ300

    ABZ300 G

    Happy to help :)

    I remember he had a very detailed thread a while back with lots of pics & information. Could be useful to you.

    Abraham
     
  13. lysergic

    lysergic PWRTRIP

    This is not typical of a properly built stall. These days most have them pretty tight at low to mid throttle and flash to their stall speed only during heavy throttle.
     
  14. MickW

    MickW Carntry member...

    I went with a 3,000 RPM converter from MV Autos. It has made the car noticeably less responsive at light throttle, have to drive it like you hate
    it if you want snappy response around town so fuel drinkage is a worry. Also, it generates a fierce amount of heat in city traffic or hills.
    And the lockup clutch was an utter bastard in city traffic due to the higher stall point and the fact that the auto ECU can't be adjusted
    to allow for it. Had to put a manually operated switch on that.

    Where it shines on a TT is in allowing you to launch with good boost, great for the dragstrip or signing a road :D
    But I can't see much benefit on an NA, especially a daily driver.
     
  15. 3clipse

    3clipse #TEAMROB

    This.
    End of the day, thats all it is.

    Why sacrifice drivability for something you will rarely use?
     
  16. 8300zx9

    8300zx9 Active Member

    Yeah good points! I've since decided it won't be a good move. Although the comment about the lock up is cancelled out in my case with the SAW kit... Even in Auto mode, you can upload your own mapping to suit your preferences. First adjustment made for my Auto mode was the lock up set to engage at 90km/h, 70km/h is way too low!

    What I would be interested in, is what racing type Tourque converters are available that aren't high stallers. So im on the hunt for one that's lighter, more heat resistant and produces better torque with minimal to no slip.

    When the Z comes off the road hopfully in the new year, I will be starting a full rebuild of my Z..., the Auto will have time to be sent off and turned into a better performing Auto as it stands.... Then it will be coupled with the SAW kit which will make it doubly as good again!
     
  17. BADZX

    BADZX Grumpy old fart

    Mick and I spent some time via PM's and on the phone during the initial stages of his auto's build, mostly the discussion was on what I'd done with mine and how to "improve" on where mine was at in regards to the modifications I've performed.

    Mick certainly took his auto a step or 2 further along than I did and spent considerable time adding sensors and read-out displays, Mick KNOWS what his auto is doing exactly at any given point on the road, mine just works under the KISS program..... Keep It Simple Stupid
    :rofl:
    Mine works exactly the way I want it work..... so much so its quite often mistaken as a manual
    :eek:
    Every year on the GOR run someone is always suprised to discover mines actually an auto gearbox, it works that well :D



    To answer your question .....

    Its not worth fitting a hi-stall to a std engine, especially a N/A

    You need to make some serious steps in the horsepower to get the best benefits from a good auto setup, they go hand in hand, minor HP additions need minor auto mods, likewise, major HP additions need major auto mods....

    "drivability" will change significantly as each stage of mods to an auto is done.... Autos generaly get rebuilt as a stage 1, stage 2, & stage 3 setup, this is just a b/shyte term for the mug punter to understand....
    each stage has various pluses and minus's, over the previous stage and so do the mods undertaken..



    for most people the auto is not as good as a manual and never will be, I see no need to change their thoughts, some people just want to stay in the stone-age and don't feel comfortable without a stick in their hand.... most would be shattered if they ever got their butts into a modern super car..... no clutch !!
    :rofl:

    Bang for buck..... get your auto rebuilt, it is after all 20years old and probably not had the best service wise, a refreshed auto will deliver far better road manors and drivability than the old slugger under the car at the moment, the up side is you'll already have a good auto when the HP increases
    ;)

    tip:
    Auto's are dirt cheap, you can afford to most of the work in your shed and learn as you go...... payin someone else to do the work WILL cost you big...

    trust me...... they aint that complicated once you get into the guts of it all

    :br:
     
  18. 8300zx9

    8300zx9 Active Member


    Thanks for your imput! Much appreciated.

    I already have rebuilt my auto about 12 months ago. And I also have the SAW kit which I was hoping to use on GOR ;) So I'm more than happy with it as it stands now...it's a totally different trans, and once I rebuild my engine if be happy to show these "stone age manual folk" that it far out performs. If they can shift as fast as my Auto now....id eat my hat!

    Problem is now though is I want more ;)


    So. New Solenoids... Aftermarket or OEM. Solenoids slow down over years of use, I think my Solenoid B is a little slow these days.

    New Tourque Converter.... Aftermarket or OEM. Hoping to find one thats lighter/stronger and has more "grab".


    That's about all I can think of for the moment. This will all happen when I take the Z off the road for a restoration.
     
  19. BADZX

    BADZX Grumpy old fart

    So you have time up your sleave to grab a 2nd-hand trans and strip it down for a gander, learn the basics on how one works and start tinkering.
    :D


    The weird bit I don't get is the fear autos create, so complex so many bits to go wrong ........ when in fact there's less bits in an auto than in a manual box
    :rofl:

    the other odd thing I don't get is the servicing......

    If I told you the oil in my zed's engine was 6 years old you'd be horrified and mark it down as one NEVER to buy......
    yet we calmly take it as the norm for an auto's oil to be 6+ years old :confused:

    I've seen autos here that I swear black n blue would have the original factory fitted oil in them...... 20year old oil in a box that's STILL working !!!, try that with a manual and see how that pans out
    :rofl:

    Its a common thread here and on other forums to see the usual my auto's died thread..... the sad bit is it's generaly a complete lack of maintenance that leads to the demise of most autos.

    My missus zed is a classic example, lacking drive, long gear changes, excessive revs through the changes, struggled on hills to hold a high gear....
    Yeah the oil was a tad blackish but still smelt ok........

    took her car for a short run and we made it half way home before the usual dreaded failure..... no drive !!!, left it to cool down and after an hour we got moving again (well sort of)..... enough to make it home :D
    dropped the box and fitted the replacement box that w/end and bingo were all good again.....

    A few weeks later and a spare day .......
    I tore the box apart looking for the failure, I really couldn't find a single main cause but instead found a few minor problems that led to the failure, individualy they weren't of any great a problem.... but combined they had a big impact

    I replace one band more as a cautionary thing, spent a couple of hours cleaning out the fine grunge build up and re-assembled it as a spare box.... that box has since been fitted to another zed (not mine) and has done 60,000k's of trouble free running....... remember this auto was ready for the scrap bin like so many on this forums have gone before it !!!


    So.....

    they are cheap because ppl don't understand em
    they are cheap because ppl don't service them well AT ALL

    you need to grab one and start learning

    ;)
     
  20. 8300zx9

    8300zx9 Active Member



    Yep totally agree! My Auto goes in for a service not strictly but almost every 5000 K's, and engine oil/filter gets done almost out of boredom :rofl:

    Both my engine and Auto has had a good life leading up to me with only the original owner (servicing all done at Nissan) and a female driver (who's father was a mechanic). So I definitely feel like I found a gem.....although the odd things here and there are now slowly becoming worn out at 266k km's but thats to be expected. I'm all over those parts before they become and issue, replacing them with new parts.

    What I find funny is the Auto gets so much slack on this forum (and others). But a well preforming/regularly serviced Auto with either a aftermarket valve body and bumped up line pressure or if your lucky with a SAW kit it far out performs a Manual. Especially if you have a SAW kit for the track or twisties having the ability to be in any 4 or technically 5 (lock up) gears you please.

    PLUS! the amount of Auto drag cars will surprise most, in fact I think most are? The ol' two speed powerglide being very popular in the older beasts with MASSIVE power plants running 7 seconds or less!

    The Auto box itself isn't really any heavier than the manual box....And if you ask me, by feel, the clutch assembly is the same weight as a Torque converter. So same weight added to the car, plus the same weight spinning on your crank!

    I restored a HT Premier a few years back which had a two speed powerglide, and I rebuilt that no problems. I mean thats a far simpler Auto, but with my mechanical aptitude I'm sure I can work it all out when the time comes....But really, I like the work done at the Auto shop I've been going too, so i might just give it to them.
     

Share This Page